Eaten Alive
Well I went to the court house today to try and figure this stuff out, I went and bought a list of properties that was fore sale for back taxes, this list is the one that the redemption period has run out on and in February if no one buys them they will be absorbed back into the county. When I went to look up the land in those BIG BOOKS it was confusing and there was about 15 other people doing the same thing, and they all was from some other states, I was the only one from my state and town doing this.
I asked the clerk for help to explain how I look this up and she raddled off some information that made no sense so she gave me a book for the first piece of property that I was wanting, then as she walked off she said that I needed to make sure that the land had no liens against it and said to use those books over there boy was that allot of help.
So once I found the persons name in the book it told me that I needed to look in book number 422 page 155-6 it showed me a deed to the land and from that I got the township and range stuff from it then every thing got worse the lady would not help me and ignored my questions for help, she was interested in talking to her friends from out of state doing the same thing, they all laughed and said that I should leave this to the big boys and to come back when I knew what I was doing, that was a bad move on there part.
I was going to give up and move on, but now I am going to keep going back every day till I learn this stuff, at least I was smart enough to look up land that was not flooded by the lake along time ago that we have here. I also now the area names around here where the land is located and what side of town is the richest part of the neighborhood.
Any way my question is.
1. What must I make sure that I check for before I pay these back taxes? IE: is the courthouse the only place that I need to check for liens?
2. Once I pay the back taxes the lady in another office told me that from the list she sold me I could immediately take it to a lawyer and he could file a quit title and I would own the land that it was that simple. My question is do I have to file for a title right away or can I just pay the taxes and sit on it and file after I finish my search, is there a time limit?
3. If I pay the taxes and find that there is a lien on the land do I ever have to file for the title and will I be liable for the liens if I pay the taxes. The reason I ask is that when I went back in the vault to put the book back the guy next to me the so called Veteran hunter copied all my information down on his list. He said my paperwork fell and he was just picking it back up funny how that happens when a book was covering my paper.
4. last question does John Beck books explain in detail how all this works I need something like step one go to the courts house and look in the BIG BLUE BOOK this book is called a records book and you use this book for finding this type of information you will need it for the next BIG RED BOOK this book has all of this information you want to get. Any way you get the idea I have already spent more money chasing dogs like the no money down system and I really don’t want to spend more on this but from what I read on this board this is the book to have so if it is a guide for newbie’s with terminology explained then please let me know as I will purchase it on payday if I can talk the wife in to letting spend more money on this stuff.
Thanks again for letting vent and ask questions it was a loooooonnnngg day.
Mysticreality,
Sorry to hear that you had a terrible time at the courthouse, but you did the right thing by asking for help. Don't let them discourage you! If you don't ask, then you will never know...
I remember my first time at the courthouse, it can be a scary place if you don't know what you are looking for. First off, do you know anything about the process of buying the back taxes in your county? Have you read any information on tax leins? You should first get a basic understanding of what you are getting yourself into before you make a costly mistake. Every new investor makes mistakes, but it's the successful ones that learn from their previous mistakes and never make them again.
If you need more information on the subject, then you should check out the articles here on TCI. Type in "tax deed" in the article search box in the top right hand corner of the page underneath your username. You should read the articles written by DariusBarazandeh, they are extremely informative. Learn about it and see if it's what you want to do before you waste more time at the courthouse making no progress.
As for deciphering the courthouse mess, in time you will master it. You can't expect to learn overnight. You had to learn to crawl before you could walk. Just don't give up and it will come...
Tanya
The only way to learn something is to ask.
Well, you can learn by doing first and then asking. But that takes too long and can lead to some headaches.
You did nothing wrong by asking for help.
I'm sure they came straight out tha birth canal knowing how to look up stuff @ the courthouse, huh?
Sounds to me like they smell competition.
Good.
Let 'em know you're serious and you're gonna be stickin' around for a while.
They had better get used to your presence.
Don't give up.
Take care.
Jason
_________________
With the proper motivation, the right amount of drive, and a pack of Mentos (R), you can accomplish anything.[ Edited by Ichabod on Date 12/03/2003 ]
Mysticreality---------------
The collection of delinquent property taxes is different in every state.
John Beck's book does not have the detail you are asking for. The books in some counties are not red and blue. I some counties they are all red, in some all blue, in some they are grey. Some don't have books, everything is on the computer. You have to learn the detailed ins and outs where you live.
Some county employees are a pain, many are very helpful. If there are other employees in that office, you might ask them for help.
I agree that you have to know what is going on. Get into the law library and read up the state statutes on the collection of delinquent property taxes, tax deeds, and so on. Check the websites of bunch of counties in your state, you may find one that has a lot of detail on the process, although from what you have said this may not give the information at the stage you are in.
Probably the list could be gotten for free or very low cost directly from the county or by seeing it in the local newspaper as a legal ad or legal notice.
Call some other counties nearby and see if you can find one where the help is more helpful. Then start off over there, rather than in your county.
The "secret"of success in real estate investing is persistence.
Good Investing************Ron Starr***********
Thanks every one for all the words of encouragement I will not give up helpful tips.
tanya1215
Thanks for the lead on the search that was a very helpful and I enjoyed reading the articles.
well its 6:00am and I am just about ready for day two of this battle, I have made me a big list and I will not leave until I get my answers if I don't learn any thing ells about REI I am going to learn how to read them Darn books.
ps has any one written a list of terms like.
REI = Real Estate Investor
FSBO = For Sale By Owner
This sure would be a handy thing to have.
Thanks agian every one
Mystic, i'm sorry to hear that your first experience was so overwhelming! I know that other people searching records can be rude and/or intimidating and expect that but i always am amazed that public employees can be such "a**es!"
I don't really know how things work in your part of the state but i will tell you something that helped me. Instead of going to the courthouse in a larger, more metro area and looking up info, try picking a smaller county or township to learn the ropes in. I ended up doing my first real deal (not quite the same as yours, was a public tax auction) in a small, up north community. The people in the county building were very helpful and the pace was alot more laid back. I didn't go in begging for help, i just told them what i was hoping to do and someone actually walked me through the first search.
I still have lots more to learn, but sometimes feeling like an idiot is better done around more understanding people, then you can step over to the "big boys'" playground and at least know what you're looking for.
Good luck, don't give up !
Becki
Day two of the battle went very well.
I arrived at the court house right when they opened up, so that it was just me and the clerks, they was surprised to see me back but they took the time and explained the books to me, now I am able to use them rather well to find every thing I think I need to find, I know I still have a long way to go but as time goes on I will get better and faster at searching for what I need.
it looks like for now I am finding a bunch of garbage like by laws from the comunity meeting that was updated from year to year that some one decided to put in the books, but that’s part of the fun I guess its kind of interesting to see what people thought was important enough to add to these books.
I found a grocery receipt that was copied and placed in the books the story behind that one was that the person charged the groceries and the food mart decided to add it to the book it stated that if the bill was not paid that they would be able to take ownership of there cart as it was used for collateral.
any way it was another long day and I will be going back again in the morning to try and find all the potential liens against the property.
Question.
is the court house the only place I should look? I asked the lady and she said that they only record federal state and county liens/records she did not know about the city and she did not know if the city recorded liens who do I ask about this? city hall?
next question.
I talked to a lawyer who knew less than I did about tax liens he did not know the answer to my question is/was if the county absorbs the land what happens to all the liens? do the get wiped away and if so shouldn't I wait till the county absorbs the land then make a bid at the clerks office to have the county commissioner if accepted bring it back as a sheriffs sale? this way it would be free and clear.
Sorry I spent the other half of the day in the law library reading tax liens but no real joy on this subject.
any way thanks again for the encouragement it helps.
[ Edited by Mysticreality on Date 12/04/2003 ]
Try going online and do a Google search it is the best way to start: property tax statutes AND your state
C-
Mystic
Your post is one of the best I've read. It's a flashback to my travails of yesteryear. I leaned that the majority of courthouse civil servants are not civil nor are the servants. Once they get use to you, they will help you. After you've been there several times bring in an unopended box
of doughnuts and say "I just wanted to thank you for all your help". That works magic.
I don't know how extensive the list you're researching is. Perhaps it would be helpful to go look at the population of properties-first. Decided which one (ones) you would like to buy then do
the research on the reduced list.
Mystic,
I am really impressed by your persistence and your drive. You will obviously succeed where others have failed. Please keep it up and stay focused on the job. You will do very well. Thank you and lots of luck. These gentlemen and ladies here are all correct in what they have said. You will do very well some day soon!!
RC[ Edited by GlennI on Date 12/11/2003 ]
Once again thanks for the words of encouragement I have not given up, I have just been reading title 68 Revenue and Taxation, allot of info but hey reading laws and regs is no problem for me as that was part of my job when I worked for the government so this is starting to get easier and easier every day I just needed a starting point.
The next big hurdle will be filing for the quit title once I find some land that I want, question is should I use a lawyer or do it myself. I have no problem learning and doing the research to do it.
After I am done I will put together a step by step guide of how it was done and give it to the court house for the next newbie how might need help.
I think that the most people starting out is, are like me I paid for a course to tell me how to do it but all it really did was tell me that it can be done and not how it was done I don't need to hear people brag I need a guide with explanations not some BS. Sorry but when I pay money for answers that’s what I want answers not fluff or a broad stroke of the pen I can get that anywhere.
any way sorry for the rant just tired of running down dead ends.
[ Edited by Mysticreality on Date 12/10/2003 ][ Edited by GlennI on Date 12/11/2003 ]
Well that worked great posting e-mails and urls don't work to good, so send me a private message through the board if you want to contact me. kind of strang they won't let you post urls or e-mail but they will let you see IP adresses.
Mysticreality--(VA)-------------------
I agree with richen(NC), your persistence is admirable. The secret of success in real estate investing is persistence.
You probably can do a quiet title lawsuit on your own. I have gotten the paperwork for a couple of after-taxdeed quiet title lawsuits by going to the courthouse and getting copies. It does not even have to be the courthouse in your county if there are others with better systems for locating the type of lawsuit you want to do.
Most tax sale lawsuits, I would guess, go unanswered. Thus, you wil prevail by taking a default judgment. If there is an answer, you need to at least consult an attorney familiar with these types of lawsuits or else hire such an attorney to substitute in for you a a new attorney.
Good Investing********Ron Starr**********
I think for my first tax deal I will have a title company do a title search for $150.00 then if no big clouds are on the title pay the taxes then have an attorney file the paperwork.
the steps are really simple.
1. Buy a delinquent tax list from the court house that the redemption has run out on.
2. Check the list and eliminate the subdivisions you do not want to own land in, because I know the area this is not hard.
3. Decide if you want undeveloped land or houses.
4. Research the land you want for liens against it, if they are small liens like a light bill, water, sewer, garbage, I say plow on no big deal you can deal with that later.
5. After you have done your search and you feel comfortable that the land has value and that no big alligators are going to bite you pay the $150.00 to have a title search done on the land to see if you missed any thing small price for insurance. (now if you are worried about the small clouds on the title and you are sure you want to do this then if you want pay the lights water and other small bills so they don't raise there head during your filing for a quit title.)
6. Pay the back taxes and have an attorney file for your quit title.
7. Wait one year letting the land set just incase for Oklahoma according to title 68 if you are 65yrs of age or can prove you are disabled you are exempt from paying taxes and they have one year to file suit against you to get the land back.
8. After one year has passed open the bottle of champagne and celebrate your first purchase and tell your wife see I told you it can be done.
That should just about some it up.