Section 8 - Read All Posts And Still Have Questions.
Hi,
Let me begin by sharing with you that yesterday at 3:00pm I did not know a thing about section 8 - voucher program. Received a call from a family (5 kids) who wants to rent my 6 bedroom single family home and they qualify for section 8. I studied every single post about Section 8 on this website and I feel that I am in much better shape today to deal with this tenant. However, after reading everything on the forum I am still confused about how the process works.
Here are some details:
1) the property is not approved for section 8 at this time and will probably need some minor stuff like fire alarm on each floor.
2) Tenant needs her paperwork in by June 15th (what does this mean - do I need to get the approval process complete before that?)
3) Tenant is visiting the property tomorrow and my existing tenets are moving our today- so no time for cleaning before they visit.
My question is what is the process- here is how I understand it:
1) Tenant visits the property. assume that they like it
2) I screen the tenant - most of you recommended visiting existing home. what else should I do
3) I fill paperwork - Is this a commitment that I want to rent the place to this person. can I get inspection done before so that I know how much work needs to get done.
4) inspector visit - I know one thing they look for is lead paint... do I need a certificate or something?
5) I make repairs based on recommendation from the inspector
6) Inspector revisits. is this true?
7) we sign a lease - who prepares a lease. what are some of the good condition to put in the lease?
8) tenant moves in
Other questions:
When do they tell me what the rent will be? is it dependent on number of bedrooms /location only or also on the family that is moving in?
do I have to have inspections by the case specific inspector?
Thanks for your help
Don't know where you're located, but most of the housing authorities have different rules, loosely based on the fed guidelines. They also probably have a class for landlords, too. It takes forever to get cleared for a tenant to move into a house here in Atlanta. I got it done fast, and it took about 5 weeks, with the tenant basically being homeless in the meantime. The inspector's look for reasons to lower your rent, seems like. And, they nit-pick something awful. But, anyways, go to the website for the Housing Authority, and you can usually find criteria for the house, and for how they determine "Market Rent".
Lots of questions and some of them are easy and some depend on the proceedures of your local housing authority.
In essence you have it right. Other than cleaning up I wouldn't do a lot of work before the inspector gets there. I have never had an apartment pass a section 8 inspection on the first pass. They always find something so that they can come back (ah, your tax dollars at work).
You should be able to find out what rent the authority will pay by a simple phone call to the authority before the tenant even visits the property. The tenant may even have this information.
You also want to ask how long it takes to process the first check. Sometimes the answer to that question can be as much as three or four months. Be prepared to carry the mortgage and maintenance for that period.
kingfasi,
Glad to meet you.
I would start with this link, then you can find out who to talk to in your area that is responsible for the Section 8 program.
http://www.hud.gov/offices/pih/programs/hcv/index.cfm
This is much easier than trying to second guess what, why, when and where, to help you.
John $Cash$ Locke
Here is one item that may not be the same in all 50 states:
For example, you found a SEC8 tenant that was informed that they have a voucher for $1100 (which is also the same amount as the rent you are asking for). During the inspection, the Inspector approved the rental amount (Inspectors will also have to approve the rental amount that you ask for during inspection) and agreed to $1100. When you get your first monthly payment, all of a sudden you will find out that they will only pay you $1050 instead of $1100. The tenant will also all of a sudden receive a letter informing them that they are responsible for the other $50. (Amounts are just for examples)[ Edited by rcpggp on Date 06/04/2004 ]
Hi,
Thanks for the quick response. I am in PA Philadelphia (suberb).
I will call the authority today to findout how much they will pay.
I will keep you all posted.
thanks.
OK.. Called the Housing authority and spoke with a older lady who was very very busy with other stuff... here is what i found out...
They only go up to 5 bedroom houses and the voucher for that is $1608 including utilities.
I am asking for $1700 rent. I asked the lady what if the house is over the voucher... she said that they cannot get it. is that correct? why would they not adjust for the 6thbedroom?
she also said it takes about 6 weeks+ to get it all done. ia sked where are these people going to live in that time.. she said hat is not our problem.
SO my final question is that why would they not adjust the rent above 5 bedroom. also 5 bedroom ca be a twin house (they are cheaper) or a single family house. they are priced differently so why is the rent not different???
Thanks again for all the help.
We have 3 properties rented under Section 8 in Maryland, and our inspectors are TOUGH. I will answer your questions based on how things have worked here for us.
Quote:
On 2004-06-04 11:38, kingfasi wrote:
Hi,
"Tenant needs her paperwork in by June 15th (what does this mean - do I need to get the approval process complete before that?)"
Basically this means the ball needs to start rolling. When you sign the "Intent to Rent" form and it is turned into the family's caseworker, this is what is needed to get things moving.
"Tenant is visiting the property tomorrow and my existing tenets are moving our today- so no time for cleaning before they visit."
Dont worry about it, tenant should understand the situation.
"My question is what is the process- here is how I understand it:
1) Tenant visits the property. assume that they like it"
CORRECT
2)" I screen the tenant - most of you recommended visiting existing home. what else should I do"
Here they HAVE to give you contact info. for their current landlord. Call to get a reference.
3)" I fill paperwork - Is this a commitment that I want to rent the place to this person. can I get inspection done before so that I know how much work needs to get done."
It is an INTENT to rent, but not a contract. If the inspection comes back with more than you are willing to fix, you have the option not to proceed.
4) "inspector visit - I know one thing they look for is lead paint... do I need a certificate or something?"
When was the property built? If before 1978 you will have to make absolutely certain there is NO chipping/peeling paint ANYWHERE on the premises. If something even looks like it will peel soon, sand and repaint. Especially if there will be children under age 6 residing there. If before 1950 there is a certificate you will need, but off the top of my head I cant tell you what it's called.
5) "I make repairs based on recommendation from the inspector"
These are not recommendations, these are requirements for the property to pass. You pretty much have no choice other than complete the work on the non-compliance list or decide not to rent thru the program.
6) "Inspector revisits. is this true? "
Yes the inspector will reinspect the property after you have completed the required repairs. They also can re-inspect the items they inspected before. I was told by our local inspector you have 3 opportunities to get everything corrected, but the family cannot move in and you wont get paid until the unit passes inspection.
7) we sign a lease - who prepares a lease. what are some of the good condition to put in the lease?
You have your own lease, plus the Housing Dept. will also have a standard lease. You will meet with the tenant at the housing office, with their counselor, to get everything signed.
Make sure to get a month's deposit, put in your lease you will do a minimum quarterly inspection of the property to ensure it is being properly maintained, and make sure it is clear what items they are responsible for (i.e. light bulbs, cutting grass, cleaning gutters, etc.)
8) tenant moves in
Correct, and in one year the inspector will come out again, and you have 45 days to make any necessary repairs.
"Other questions:
When do they tell me what the rent will be? is it dependent on number of bedrooms /location only or also on the family that is moving in?"
Here it is dependent on the # of bedrooms and location. The family's voucher should have a ballpark amount. Best thing is to find out who their counselor is and give him/her a call. Most times they can answer your specific questions. Some of the counselors can be a real pain in the butt, but most I've dealt with are ok.
"do I have to have inspections by the case specific inspector?"
You will get whatever inspector they send, you cannot choose who will come. Both the ones that work in our district are equally as picky. But our last property did pass on the 1st inspection. :D
Thanks for your help
Wait, you're asking for logic from a Governmental institution?? hhhmmmm The flip side of that is, even tho, theoretically, they'll go up to that amount, doesn't mean YOU'LL get that much. Like I said, most of'em use some type of formula to generate that "Fair Market Rent" is, and it's VERY difficult to actually get it. They've had a lot of cuts in the funding for the program, and look for reasons to not pay top rent.
Here, the rent is determined by neighborhood "quality", grade of the house, location in relation to amenities, and how much the renter qualifies for, as well as # bedrooms, bath, etc.
Quote:
On 2004-06-04 14:10, jam200 wrote:
Wait, you're asking for logic from a Governmental institution?? hhhmmmm The flip side of that is, even tho, theoretically, they'll go up to that amount, doesn't mean YOU'LL get that much. Like I said, most of'em use some type of formula to generate that "Fair Market Rent" is, and it's VERY difficult to actually get it. They've had a lot of cuts in the funding for the program, and look for reasons to not pay top rent.
Here, the rent is determined by neighborhood "quality", grade of the house, location in relation to amenities, and how much the renter qualifies for, as well as # bedrooms, bath, etc.
I know things can and do vary greatly by state. Our local head inspector told me they base "fair market rent" on what the non-assisted rentals in the same area are rented for. If you get that amount is based on how much the tenant's voucher is for. We have on tenant who is actually qualifies for $1400 but we get $1250 for her duplex because that is fair market rent for the area. The same type of property, 9 miles away, market rent is only $900.
The inspector also told me if I wanted to dispute the amount they'd pay, to find comparables either on MLS or thru classified ads and they would reconsider the rental amount.
I'm not saying it's a bad program, and I've got a couple of houses with Section 8 renters in them, and I don't mind that extra headaches and hassles that go with renting to Section 8 people.
There're a LOT of people that have a place to sleep that wouldn't have one without it. Heck, here, it varies from county to county as to how much they'll pay, and the formulas they use to calculate it varies from county to county. So, what I'm saying is, there's no way to know what's going to be paid, and HOW they're going to be paid, in Pennsylvania! I was speaking in generalities, and in MY market. He just need to check on specifics for his market, and how the Housing Authority determines FMR...
Thank You all for great ideas and suggestions so far. So today they came a visited the property for the first time. They liked the place. I have a couple of questions:
1) They are moving from one county to another. is that a problem?
2) They want to move in first july. the aldy said that she will pay me first rent in cash if the Section 8 process is not complete by that time? should i let them move in for rent advance before the process is complete?
3) she said her vouceher is 1300$ but she pays 200 additional to the owner of her current prop. and according to her that amount is "under the table in cash". should i let her pay some under the table if section cannot pay the rent for the prop i am asking 1800. but section 8 only goes to 1608$ including utilities.
4) After she was done lookign the property ia sked her to give me her current landlords number she said she will call me with that. i proposed to follow her to her house to get the number. I wanted to chk the prop based on your suggesions to chk out how they live in the current house. it looked ok. not in a very bad shape. i asked her about her credit and she said she has a couple of issues. she also told me that the landrod likes them and they have never complained in the last one year to him about anything. so what elase should i look for before i rent it ot them?
Lady is not working her husband is working for a contractor.
Thank in advance for your help
Do as you wish about the under the table rent but remember your dealing with the federal government and thier very specific about that paarticular thing.
I myself have been faced with the same situation and I turned the renter down found another.
Ed
1) If the tenants are moving to another county, they will have to contact the SEC8 administration of the new county (where the new house is). They will be the one to send the inspector and process the whole "deal" between you and the tenant.
2) SEC8 Inspectors generally will not inspect an occupied house. Some doesn't want to see furnitures in the house and some even go as far as there should be no clothes in the closets present--no sign that someone has been staying there. This depends on the Inspector---there are a few flexible ones out there---BUT VERY RARE!!!!
3)You should be able to charge rent that is more than the tenants voucher. The tenant will just have to pay the difference----but for your protection, the SEC8 Administration needs to know about this! There is really no ethical reason to keep it "under the table".
4) Looks like your pretty well covered...
***NOTE: Processes varies from city-city/county-county/state-state---some of the advice in this reply may not apply to your situation.[ Edited by rcpggp on Date 06/08/2004 ]
Have they started the process of having their paperwork moved to the new county? This can take some time. Talk to their current counselor and find out WHEN it will be transferred and if they know WHO the new counselor will be.
The previous poster is correct about the inspector not wanting anything in/anyone living there at the initial inspection. Our last inspection, my husband had a small toolbox of handtools sitting on the counter, in case there was something small he needed to correct during the inspection, inspector made him remove it from the house before beginning the inspection. Yes they are strict.
As for paying additional rent under the table, that is a federal crime according to your lease with HUD. Here is a section verbatim from one of our HUD leases:
OWNER CERTIFICATION:
"Except for rent to owner, the owner has not received and will not receive any payments or other consideration (from the family, the PHA (housing authority), HUD, or any other public or private source) for rental of the contract unit during the HAP contract term"
Rent to owner is the amount written on the first page of the lease and the first page of the HAP contract (housing assistance payments contract). You cant legally charge more than this agreed upon amount.
Also, even if you decided to go against the terms of the HUD lease contract and have a "verbal agreement" that they will pay you $200 a month more, what is your recourse if they dont pay you? You cant evict them, they dont HAVE to pay it legally. They could get mad at you and turn you in to the housing authority and you will be, at the very least, prohibited from leasing thru the Section 8 program permanently. Not worth it in my opinion.
As for moving in before your lease is in effect, not a good idea. Aside from the house needing to be vacant, I would *think* it might be questioned by the Housing Authority *how* they were able to pay the full amount of this month's rent, but not be able to pay every month without assistance??? Just my opinion, I just think it would throw a red flag. And I would recommend highly, that you, as a new landlord to the world of Section 8, follow everything to the letter. Your best source of info. as to how to proceed lies in this family's caseworker. They are *supposedly* there to help, that's what they are paid for. Dont be afraid to ask questions.
[ Edited by pinkflamingo on Date 06/08/2004 ][ Edited by pinkflamingo on Date 06/08/2004 ]
Hi Kingfasi,
The reason your local housing authority does not go up to six bedrooms is because there are so few out there they have not been set up in your area. The housing authority also has limited funds and probably made an adminitrative decision to cut off at 5 bedrooms. They will pay you the five bedroom rate, but not any more than that. It is a business decision if you decide to accept it.
By the way, money under the table is enough to get both the tenant and the old landlord off the program and prosecuted for fraud. I doubt this tenant is a good risk since she will be in legal trouble if she gets found out by the housing authority.
Best of luck whatever you decide to do.
rrgirl
Thank You all for the great input.
I have decided to not let the tenent move in until the papaerwork is complete.
We are getting the paper work in a day or so and I will be back with more questions at that time.
If anyone has any additional feedback on my previous questions please feel free to post.
Thanks again.