ijust got introduced to tax leins ****Must Reach Freshman Investor status before posting URL's***s the ted thomas course as good as it sounds?please advice.
I have not seen Ted Thomas' course on Tax Liens. However, I have never known Ted to give anybody their money's worth when he sold some eduational materials to them.
I would suggest you will be far better off buying either John Beck's "Free and Clear" progam (www.johnbeck.net) or Roy Stubblefield's manual for the state in which you want to invest (search for his name).
I was also approached around a year ago by a company called Trinity Consulting regarding material by Ted. They wanted to "sell" a training class and phone conferences (including Ted's materials).
After significant investigation this turns out to be an unwise (big understatement) investment in my opinion. The coures and conference calls are very expensive and appeared to be focused on selling you more materials.
I'd be interested to heard from anyone who has used his material and does not have a financial interest in it's use.
I have also heard alot of unfavorable things about Mr. Thomas' material and his company.
I recently spoke to an individual on the telephone who attended one of Ted's 3 day Canadian seminars covering tax lien investing in the U.S.
When I asked him what Ted covered I was told that it was much of the same basic information repeated throughout the seminar. Also alot of county office phone numbers were given.
The conclusion I have drawn is that the materials tend to full of enticing generalities and very short on specifics.
You can get all the info in Ted Thomas's courses here and in other forums. Search the web. There is a Yahoo group on tax liens (send me a PM and I can dig up the specific group name). Read everything that is posted here. Ask questions.
I have taken a lot of seminars and courses so I do not mind paying for educational materials. The TT materials are low value so use the money somewhere else (other materials or just buy a lien and learn).
As a tax lien educator I get many phone calls about other people's programs etc. The most recent complaint I have received was about Trinity Consulting. The person asked me if I would go to court with him as an expert witness about tax liens. Supposedly Trinity Consulting sold him something that was not reality and he wanted his money back but they refused. In the end they settled for 50% of the total price.
The unfortunate part is that I get many complaints about Ted Thomas' programs as well.
I haven't seen either program and don't need to. The e-mails and phone calls of complaints are sufficient in my book. I did participate in a Ted Thomas conference call and was appalled at the picture he painted to innocent potential investors about tax liens.
Just do your research carefully, in the end it will be your due diligence that will keep your money safe.
I would not recommend Roy Stubbifield and his group either. I recieved a call today from a woman in Texas who was urged by Stubbifield's group to invest in Missouri.
True to Stubbiefield's investment techniques the woman was asked to send hundreds of letters to individuals with delinquent taxes. She paid $5000 for a coach from Stubbifeilds group as well.
Apparnetly the list was made up of individuals who had a delinquency BUT the lien on thier property had not been sold at a tax sale yet.
Her 'coach' did not verify the list. She sent 200 letters to individuals offering to buy thier properties. The delinquent taxpayers contacted the county tax office. The county contacted the county attorney and the county attorney contacted the Attorney General for the state of Missouri.
She learned on Friday that she is being sued by the state of Missouri and damages sought are $100 per person x 200 people = $200,000. It is doubtful that the state will get that much because her mistake was not willfull but a complete error in her understanding of the list.
Nevertheless she will pay court costs, probably a fine of about $5,000 to $20,000 and attorneys fees for herself and the state.
What law did this poor woman break ? Is it illegal to send letters to people ? Are they on some "don't mail list" ?
I am asking, because that's one of the techniques I plan to use some day in California (once I move there). Is this a Mississipi law, or would that be illegal in California ? In may case, I plan to contact people who taxes are 5+ years delinquent.
[addsig]
I am not sure of the laws in that state however the lawsuit probably revolves around some aspect of thier deceptive trade practices statutes. The Attorney General can prosecute indviduals when they act in a manner that is contrary to the best interests of the public. This is especially true if there is misrepresentation in a mass mailed communication.
While I don't know all the facts here it does appear that these were properties in which a tax lien had not been sold yet. So while the properties where delinquent a sale had not occured yet.
So the Attorney General is probably buiding a case based on the fact that a misrepresentation was included in the letter (i.e., 'a tax lien on your property has been sold at a tax sale...' ). This was not a willful misrepresentation because she believed that the list was actually made up of properties where a tax lien had been sold.
Some of these statutes may be strict liability statutes. This means that regardless of intent, the offender is still 'strictly liable' for performing the act even if they do not have the intent to defraud. I am not sure of Missouri law on this point but for her sake lets hope they can settle.
In the end my reason for posting this was to let everyone know that they had better be very careful when doing mass mailings to delinquent property owners.
Best of Luck![ Edited by DariusBarazandeh on Date 06/08/2004 ]
Ashk-------------
I have not seen Ted Thomas' course on Tax Liens. However, I have never known Ted to give anybody their money's worth when he sold some eduational materials to them.
I would suggest you will be far better off buying either John Beck's "Free and Clear" progam (www.johnbeck.net) or Roy Stubblefield's manual for the state in which you want to invest (search for his name).
Good Investing******Ron Starr**********
I was also approached around a year ago by a company called Trinity Consulting regarding material by Ted. They wanted to "sell" a training class and phone conferences (including Ted's materials).
After significant investigation this turns out to be an unwise (big understatement) investment in my opinion. The coures and conference calls are very expensive and appeared to be focused on selling you more materials.
I'd be interested to heard from anyone who has used his material and does not have a financial interest in it's use.
I have also heard alot of unfavorable things about Mr. Thomas' material and his company.
I recently spoke to an individual on the telephone who attended one of Ted's 3 day Canadian seminars covering tax lien investing in the U.S.
When I asked him what Ted covered I was told that it was much of the same basic information repeated throughout the seminar. Also alot of county office phone numbers were given.
The conclusion I have drawn is that the materials tend to full of enticing generalities and very short on specifics.
< I have not viewed these products myself>
You can get all the info in Ted Thomas's courses here and in other forums. Search the web. There is a Yahoo group on tax liens (send me a PM and I can dig up the specific group name). Read everything that is posted here. Ask questions.
I have taken a lot of seminars and courses so I do not mind paying for educational materials. The TT materials are low value so use the money somewhere else (other materials or just buy a lien and learn).
John
[addsig]
As a tax lien educator I get many phone calls about other people's programs etc. The most recent complaint I have received was about Trinity Consulting. The person asked me if I would go to court with him as an expert witness about tax liens. Supposedly Trinity Consulting sold him something that was not reality and he wanted his money back but they refused. In the end they settled for 50% of the total price.
The unfortunate part is that I get many complaints about Ted Thomas' programs as well.
I haven't seen either program and don't need to. The e-mails and phone calls of complaints are sufficient in my book. I did participate in a Ted Thomas conference call and was appalled at the picture he painted to innocent potential investors about tax liens.
Just do your research carefully, in the end it will be your due diligence that will keep your money safe.
Francoise
I recently found out the the Whitney Group has a class on tax liens. Has anyone heard about it?
[addsig]
I would not recommend Roy Stubbifield and his group either. I recieved a call today from a woman in Texas who was urged by Stubbifield's group to invest in Missouri.
True to Stubbiefield's investment techniques the woman was asked to send hundreds of letters to individuals with delinquent taxes. She paid $5000 for a coach from Stubbifeilds group as well.
Apparnetly the list was made up of individuals who had a delinquency BUT the lien on thier property had not been sold at a tax sale yet.
Her 'coach' did not verify the list. She sent 200 letters to individuals offering to buy thier properties. The delinquent taxpayers contacted the county tax office. The county contacted the county attorney and the county attorney contacted the Attorney General for the state of Missouri.
She learned on Friday that she is being sued by the state of Missouri and damages sought are $100 per person x 200 people = $200,000. It is doubtful that the state will get that much because her mistake was not willfull but a complete error in her understanding of the list.
Nevertheless she will pay court costs, probably a fine of about $5,000 to $20,000 and attorneys fees for herself and the state.
Not a pretty picture...
...so Roy Stubbifield....I DON'T RECOMMEND!
Hi Darius,
What law did this poor woman break ? Is it illegal to send letters to people ? Are they on some "don't mail list" ?
I am asking, because that's one of the techniques I plan to use some day in California (once I move there). Is this a Mississipi law, or would that be illegal in California ? In may case, I plan to contact people who taxes are 5+ years delinquent.
[addsig]
The state was Missouri where this occured.
I am not sure of the laws in that state however the lawsuit probably revolves around some aspect of thier deceptive trade practices statutes. The Attorney General can prosecute indviduals when they act in a manner that is contrary to the best interests of the public. This is especially true if there is misrepresentation in a mass mailed communication.
While I don't know all the facts here it does appear that these were properties in which a tax lien had not been sold yet. So while the properties where delinquent a sale had not occured yet.
So the Attorney General is probably buiding a case based on the fact that a misrepresentation was included in the letter (i.e., 'a tax lien on your property has been sold at a tax sale...' ). This was not a willful misrepresentation because she believed that the list was actually made up of properties where a tax lien had been sold.
Some of these statutes may be strict liability statutes. This means that regardless of intent, the offender is still 'strictly liable' for performing the act even if they do not have the intent to defraud. I am not sure of Missouri law on this point but for her sake lets hope they can settle.
In the end my reason for posting this was to let everyone know that they had better be very careful when doing mass mailings to delinquent property owners.
Best of Luck![ Edited by DariusBarazandeh on Date 06/08/2004 ]