Kitchen Cabinets In Rental~
Hello,
We bought our first investment home recently. Its a 3/2 SFH built in '82 with those builder grade, cardboard cabinets so popular for awhile. We'd hoped to fix them but after taking a closer look, replacement seems the only option.
What cabinets would you recommend? Custom? Ordering from Depot or Lowes?
Thank you,
MB in TX
Custom'll cost a BOATLOAD of money if you get someone to build them. I'm doing a higher end house, and the cabinets in it are costing me in the neighborhood of 10k, installed.
If you buy'em at Home Depot, you can get 36" sections for 'round $200.00 a piece, depending on their purpose, and whether or not they've got drawers in them.
We checked our local Home Depot-- they have some assemble-it-yourself cabinets that actually have a pretty good rating with Consumer Reports. Are you talking about those?
The American Woodmark brand looked like better quality, but HD says it'll take 30 days once they're ordered, plus the measuring/install person can't come measure for another week. I'm wondering if by the time I pay 2 months P&I, I couldn't hire someone locally to build them.
This place isn't high end-- but I don't want crap in there either
Thanks~ MB
Yeah, I forget the name brand, but they're your standard white pre-assembled, off the shelf cabinets. They had some that you can paint, as in unfinished, if you don't want white ones.
I actually bought one of the unassembled cabinets for under a kitchen sink once. I SWORE at that point, I'd never do it again. It was awful. Took me 4 hours, I busted the side of it and it wasn't very steady.
For a little bit more, you can get the pre-assembled, set in place, slap a couple of screws into the wall, and set a counter top on top of them, and you're good to go.
Just out of curiousity, have you gotten a quote on getting some built? I think on my high end one, I spent a good chunk of my total cost on countertop, 'cause you can spend a BUNCH on that, QUICK, but it makes a lot of difference on a retail.
No estimate yet-- should have those by Friday. I'll post then and let you know
How do the pre-assembled cabinets you're talking about hold up? Did you put them in rentals or a place you sold? The drawers looked like crap-ola but I was wondering if you could beef them up a bit.
MB
The off the shelf, pre-assembled cabinets are actually pretty good stuff, relatively speaking. I've put them in rentals, as well as retails.
For a rental, you could see if you can find a salvage place to buy cabinets, to save a few bucks. At the time I was working on the rental, I didn't really have time to go looking for a salvage store, but since have learned where some are, and you can find them there that are in pretty good shape, with perhaps just a place where the paint got messed up or something that you can touch up, for about 1/2 as much as you might spend at Home Depot.
Look up habitat for humanity and ask them if they have a contractor thrift store. We do in our area they call it the Re-Store.
mills pride home depot kd cabnits look great you can put any type of handle on them the right handle makes a big difference. and they wear well kd means knock down you put them togeter yourself (not difficult) I did a small gally kitchen for 500 bucks you should be able to do it for less than a thousand. good luck
Yep...Roush has it right. I've done two complete kitchens with the put together yourself mills pride. It takes awhile to put them together...I had my wife help and did both kitchens for around 2K with the countertops from HD. Buy your cabinet hardware on eBay...super cheap compared to retail and the shipping isn't much on those small items. I bought a ton of stuff on ebay for the rentals everything from faucets to kitchen sinks for well under wholesale.
Put the Mills Pride cabinets together like you are never going to take them apart. Use glue and a nail gun. You can add reinforcements if you like.
Quote:
Don't know why I didn't think of that...
On 2004-12-07 23:13, The-Rehabinator wrote:
Put the Mills Pride cabinets together like you are never going to take them apart. Use glue and a nail gun. You can add reinforcements if you like.
That makes sense---
Thanks everyone---
Anyone use anything besides the pre-formed laminate counter tops? That was our first choice, but the salesman tried to talk us into a solid surface product... said since we were ordering the bar, this wasn't that much more.
I'm not sure how he arrived at his 'not much more' figure, cause it sure looked like much more'to me.
MB
Generally laminate or post formed laminate goes for around $8 sq ft, and solid surface goes for about $40 a sq ft. Those are speaking in regard to brands such as Formica or Wilsonart for the laminate and brands such as Avonite or Corian for the solid surfacing. I don't know of any solid surfacing that could approach the low price of laminate. I would like to know the name of what he is trying to sell you.
I can't find the brochure but the name started with an 's'-- sileostone? Dunno--
Have to remember that when I get my website going...
Anyway, $42 a sq ft is the price he quoted on the solid surface. Somehow he claimed that ordering the bar top would make the price competitive. We decided to go with a laminate by a local so we can extend it up to the cabinets (and not have to wait on Home Depot.)
Estimates on custom cabinets came in today-- basically all over the place. Best was $2800 installed in red oak (unfinished.) This guy brought recommendations, samples of his work, digital photos, references-- Extremely professional presentation. Boy, it does make a difference
Thanks everyone--
MB
For countertops I've recently started removing the old countertop and having my contractors cut out 1/4 inch plywood to fit the tops of the cabinets. They then screw the plywood down to the cabinets and lay tile on it. Then I either use the same tile tile that is used on the kitchen countertop or get something with a pattern on it and use it as a backsplash. This comes out to be about the same price as the formica counter tops but in my opinion it just looks a little snazzier.
Skibrz
Silestone - that's a version of man-made quartz solid surface like Zodiaq and Ceasarstone $42 a square foot is a good price for it, a quartz based solid surface is considered one step better than the solid surfaces I was referring to such as Corian which are plastic. Silestone is one step below granite.
However, in a rental I wouldn't even consider that type of material. From all your posts it sounds like you are really considering materials that sound way too nice. Custom built cabinets? Even American Woodmark is way too nice and expensive. I would hire that cabinet guy to do work on your personal home, not a rental. Be careful, renters have a tendency to tear up your nice stuff.
saniche - if you are getting tile counters for the price of formica, you either have somebody doing inferior work so they can do it cheaper or you are getting a hell of a deal. Tile counters should be costing at least double the cost of formica counters.
If your guy is laying tiles down directly on plywood you need to have him start laying a cement board down on top of the plywood. Tile on plywood is not acceptable. Wood absorbs the water in the thinset itself creating a weaker bond right off the start, and when water penetrates the grout later it will go into the plywood and cause it to expand and crack your grout or even worse pop you tiles.
Rehabinator - No, it's not coming out cheaper but the price is in the same ball park.
Green board is screwed down on top of the plywood , thinset, tiles and then grout.
These guys are cheap but I wouldn't use them on high end homes.
We've used the Mills Pride self-assemble cabinets from HD. They come in three different finishes now, and have held up pretty good. I avoid the white ones, they still look cheap. But there are two wood-looking types, an oak and a birch color.
Depending upon the hardware useed, they can look pretty sharp, too.
Countertops: we tile them ourselves, in rentals there are no worries about burns from a hot pot that way. Typically we just use the 4x4" tiles, and trim out the edge with a nice piece of oak rather than bullnose it.
Hope that helps!
saniche - green board is drywall. It isn't an acceptable substrate for tile either. Without even going into the issues of green board not being water proof just consider the exposed gypsum on the edges not protected by the paper. If at least they are trying to put something down as a substrate just have them switch to Hardi Board. It isn't going to cost you much more. Green board is about 18 cents a square foot in material cost and Hardi Board is about 50 cents a square foot. The labor will be the same and it will be done correctly.
I'm sure you don't care about warranties, but understand that all thinset and such warranties are void by laying down green board. While you probably don't care about the warranty, you can probably see the reasoning that if something voids a warranty it probably isn't a good installation technique and there are probably other consequences besides just voiding a warranty you don't care about.
We buy our cabinet from Lowes, ready made. We use the Clear Maple, so that if you have to build a custom size you can match it up with 3 coats of clear polyurethane, sanding between coats. They do have raised panel cabinet doors though so you will have to learn to use a router with a panel bit, .........kind of fun!
We also use the same color laminate in all of our houses, so we almost can use all of our cut offs somewhere else, bath, laundry, etc. We also use the same color 6 x 6 porcelain tile from lowes for our splash. All colors are vanilla in flavor so they appeal to the most buyers. I never try to sell to the Art Deco crowd. One thing that I learned from Wade Cook old books before he went broke in the Stock Market Guru biz was that you will make more money if you try to use a cookie cutter approach in REI. Although it can't always be done in deal making, financing etc, I find that I have great success with it in rehabbing. Hope this helps.
Sorry, I meant hardi board.
Thanks everyone-- all input greatly appreciated
This is a smaller house in a snooty area. We're probably over-doing things some, but to get premium rents we'll have to provide a few hoyte-toyte details.
NOBODY, in this neighborhood has formica (heaven forbid!) but I'm thinking we can save there. Also we're planning on ceramic tile flooring everywhere except the bedrooms. At $3 sq ft installed it's cheaper than solid wood and should hold up. (heavy sigh)
The next place we buy is probably going to be in a different neighborhood.
MB
$3 a sq foot installed? Hang on here~ you are worried about hoty -toty touches and you are doing ceramic tile for $3 a square foot including installation? $3 won't even cover the cost of good tile, let alone, backer board, tape, screws, thinset, grout, sealer and most of all labor.
$3 a sq ft for floor tile is low, but not too much lower than others around here-- Are you talking about counter tops?
The $3 stuff is for the floor. Are we talking about the same thing?
Thanks,
MB
I assumed you are talking about the floor, counter top tiling should be even more expensive.
$3.00 a square foot for ceramic tile installation for flooring is incredible. I don't know anybody that would even do the labor at $3.00 a square foot. Cement board, thinset, screws, grout, sealer comes out to about $1.25 a square foot just in cost. That leaves $1.75 for the labor and the tile?
Average good tile costs $4.00 a square foot by itself. You can find deals on stuff for $1.99-$2.99 at Home Depot.
I'm just scratching my head at how you are putting in tile that costs what? 75 cents a square foot in this house, when you are considering having custom cabinets built and way upgraded counters? It just seems like yo are going way to the extremes on both ends - over doing and under doing.
Don't buy your cabinets at Home Depot.
And don't buy custom either.
There are a dozen cabinet suppliers in your area. Names such as KDA and Aristocraft (though I've been out of the residential kitchen business for many years). The prices are competitive with HD, they have local stocking distributors so that you can go pick the stuff up or have it delivered (no waiting) and they will appreciate your business which is more than I can say for the Homely Despot.
"Never buy anything from HD you can't carry out the door with you."
I found that rule applies to Lowe's as well.
I am a die-hard HD lover, even so. But I do not buy carpet, custom ANYTHING or order anything. That includes wallpaper.
Back to topic, if they're installing the tile themselves, they can keep the costs within $3 sq. ft.
What kind of tile are you thinking for the countertops? I use the simple 4x4 kitchen/shower tiles. If I wanted to, I could add a fancy border tile on there. But that makes it all nice and cheap.
I'm probably going with formica on the counter tops, but if I were doing tile, I'd use a simple 4x4 in a neutral color with darker grout with some of those raised 1x4 accent tiles in a raised design for a border on the backsplash. Also a wood edge instead of bullnose.
And that is an *excellent* rule about HD and Lowes
So true...
MB (stands for Mrs. B because no one can ever pronounce our last name--)