Chart Of Accounts For Quickbooks
hey all, my first post, new member here. love it thus far.
does anyone know where i can get a good chart of accounts for my books? something for real estate investing (wholesaling, rental property, subject to, etc. etc.). something more specific than the generic one that comes with quickbooks. greatly appreciated!!
thank you!
QuickBooks doesn't have a reporting feature??
i am not sure what you mean- reporting. they do have a chart of accounts, but it is very generic, obviously tailored to all the infinite types of businesses out there. i need something more specific to real estate investing, with expense categories that are unique to our business, so everything has a classification. i am sure many successful investors have gotten a list of chart of accounts versus manually changing and manipulating the list that comes by default as time goes on.
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Email me and I will forward you a link to a sample chart of accounts.....
This is a sample. Obviously, everyone could (and should) have their own unique set of accounts, but this should give you a start. I got this by doing a simple google search ...
Cheers!
[ Edited by thomasdodds on Date 01/06/2004 ][ Edited by thomasdodds on Date 01/06/2004 ]
I'm starting to use Management Plus for Windows by American Computer Software.
It basically is a super-accounts recievable for quickbooks. Lots of options, lots of flexibility. Has a bit of a learning curve, but appears to be a good program.
I'm a bit confused here, how much of a change are you guys having with your chart of accounts? I can't imagine there is that much to change. A few simple deletes and a few adds to the chart of accounts and you are done.
Can you post the link to this chart of accounts you referenced, I must be missing something.
Hey,
I am not trying to be rude, but are you, maybe, making this much more complicated then it needs to be????
I have been using Excel/Quicken to managment all of my business needs for almost 10 years, and it has worked flawlessly.
I have no idea how many houses you have or what you plan on doing, but unless you are very experienced REI (meaning you have a ton of properties), keep things simple to begin with.
Quickbooks Pro has the real estate Chart of Accounts. It has all you need to keep your books. I have been using it for years.
well, we don't have a ton of properties, but we probably own 40-50 buildings and turn over 2-4 per month of deals where we wholesale out. enough to be somewhat experienced, not a beginner. we used quicken until i left my J.O.B. and got my own office and then am using quickbooks pro 03, and it was a year ago, so i couldn't tell ya, but it is very likely that i am using the 'real estate chart of accounts' right now, but certainly the chart does not have all the categories that we need as real estate investors and seems to have quite a bit of extra ones we would never use. perhaps no chart of accounts exists out there that will match each persons needs, i suppose this is the moral of the story. surprised nonetheless, but apparently i am doing the thing that everyone else is doing, just going with the one they give you and tweaking it as you go. from one opportunist to another, can you smell an opportunity for someone to make some money here??
You own 40-50 properties and don't consider that a "ton of properties"?
The majority of people here won't do 40-50 transactions in their life time!
Is 40-50 a typo or what?
I can tell you if I owned 40-50 properties the only time I would be involved with quick books is looking at the statements my accountant faxed to my estate in Bora Bora once a month.
well, it seems "a ton" is relative. i know many with more who think they are small time. any time i think we are big time, i am humbled by people far more healthy in their asset porfolio than i. but it is a good start for someone in their mid 20's wouldn't you say?
but, that is why i am here. always educating myself. i rarely do my books. my assistant handles it, but when i get my monthly reports, some things are not classified in very accurate categories. just looking for something more applicable to us. but it appears we are doing what every other investor does by tweaking what Quickbooks gives us for a default real estate chart of accounts. just a little broad since there are dozens of professions within that industry. but thanks for your interesting assumptions and thoughts! it was worth a chuckle during a somewhat gloomy day.
I want some of whatever you are smoking midwestis.
I could not help but chime in.....
I thought you were refering to the lack of knowledge and experience with RE and are just starting out with doing bookkeeping for business.....Here you have 40-50 bldgs, and you have an ASSISTANT who does the books. We should thank you for adding to our dreary day....at a J.O.B.
MIlitary Service in NJ
While we're on the topic of QuickBooks, I could use some help. I've only got a few properties (4), but 7 more are en route. I suppose I could use Excel, but QuickBooks seems to be the gold standard and they say it will make accounting easier later on (esp. when I need a CPA).
I'm using QuickBooks Pro 2003, and am frankly lost. I've set up my individual houses as subclasses of the major class "Rentals".
Stupid Question: Where do I enter my expenses (repairs, utility bills, taxes, etc). And where do I enter rents received, security deposits, etc?
I think there's a way to enter everything so that I can get profiles of each individual property, as well as an overall big picture on all of them as a group.
I've also heard that one can enter things like rehabbing expenses in such a way that it adds to your tax basis in the property.
Thanks.
Bob
Bob, I'm not going to give you a quick answer to your question, but more the right one.
You need an accountant now not later.
The quality you want in a good accountant is this: They are not going to set up their accounting around your system, rather they will set you up according to their system.
Meaning if your accountant is good he/she will take set up your quick books company as it should be. He will organize it with a combination of what is going to work the best for him and the IRS and customize it a bit for what is going to work for you.
If you keep waiting and developing ways of doing your accounting, especially if you set up quick books on your own, you will be hurting yourself in the long run.
Get and accountant who knows quick books, have him set it up for you for a fee as stated above and have him teach you just enough that you need to know to do some of the book keeping.
Most good accountants will simply want you to email the quick books file to them periodically for tax purposes and any other filings or plannings you have contracted with them.[ Edited by The-Rehabinator on Date 01/10/2004 ]
Bob:
i am going to argue with the last poster, at least at one point. first, yes, of course you need an accountant, we all need accountants. so, if for some freak of situation, you do not have a CPA who does your year end taxes and is there to answer your questions, etc. throughtout the year, get one. go to a local landlord or real estate association and find out who people are using, then interview them and make a decision. for the $300-400 i pay yearly for 4 LLC's and one Corp and my individual taxes, i can tell you he is worth far more than that as he is able to get me well more than 10X what he gets me from uncle sam, paying for himself, legitimately, legally, using methods available to all of us, but only a few of us who have that knowledge- CPA's.
Second, and this is where me and the last poster might disagree: you don't need a CPA to do as you reference. in fact, i would argue STAY AWAY from a cpa. you need basic accounting education. yes, CPA's are experts in their field, hire them to do what they do, but i think a successful investor MUST have general accounting skills, amonst many other general basic skills: legal (evictions, etc.), banking (financing terms: points, PMI, amortization, etc.), etc. etc. you have to be well rounded. unfortunetely, i can't give you that knowledge you need. but i also use quickbooks pro 2003 and new nothing about accounting before my wife handed it over to me over a year ago. talk about a nightmare, but i learned fast. you have income and expenses, and any time you pay a bill using one of the accounts (bank account, credit card account, etc.) that you set up in quickbooks, it will track all expenses from that account for you. (which makes things much easier come tax time). you created a property as a class, well done. that is what we do. so now, when you do your year end, you can tell quickbooks to print out a report for all expenses for Easy Street and it is done, even by category (repairs, advertising, etc.). what i would also highly recommend, even with the amount of properties you have, is getting rent-right at the website with that name followed by .com. the program is a rental property managment program that you need. it is an addition to quickbooks, and some of the information you are going to enter twice, some expenses for example, but it will streamline your rental business and make your taxes much easier. and when i say 'your taxes' i mean preparing reports for your accountant. quickbooks is so user friendly that you should be able to figure the basics out and then don't forget to use the HELP at the top right hand corner, we do all the time.
good luck, sorry for being so lengthy.
Midwestis - CPA doesn't appear in my post. I purposefully left it out.
However, I personally always want my accountant to be a CPA.
It is true you can find plenty of accountants who are not CPAs who will do a good job for you.
But it is more true that you will have to wade through a bunch of nuckle heads to find them.
If you accountant is a CPA the odds are greatly in your favor that your accountant will be highly qualified to provide the level of service, commitment and quality that you will want.
CPAs have to take continued courses all year long to aquire credits to keep their certification in effect. They have to have apprenticed for a minimum of 2 years under another CPA, and they have had to show the commitment and dedication not to mention the education in order to pass the CPA exam. They are also upheld to the highest ethical standards, they generally socialize and network with other CPAs and have access to the information you will want in order to maximize your ROI and minimize your tax liabilities.
If you can afford it I highly recommend only using an accountant who is a CPA. I want the best on my team not second best. The easiest money you will ever earn is the money you get to keep. Don't scrimp on someone who is going to be directly responsible for overseeing the largest drain on your spendable income - someone who is in charge of your taxes.
rehabinator:
i completely agree with your post. and i am sorry that my post was so long that you didn't take the time to read it before you responded. my argument was not at all about the cpa v. accountant thing, but rather gaining general accounting knowledge so that he can perform basic accounting, leaving the year end stuff up to the accountant or cpa. with general accounting knowledge, anyone can prepare what is needed for a cpa and save themselves hundreds if not thousands of dollars by being organized. plus, i think everyone should have the knowledge of accounting, it makes us investors better well rounded. good luck all.
midwestis - I must have missed that in your post, I misinterpreted it. I would have to completely agree with you in regard to that. Learning a little book keeping can save you a lot of money, and is relatively simple and painless if you are using Quickbooks anyways.
I have a pretty extensive chart of accounts I can send you. My previous JOB was as Director of Finance for Consulting firm and therefore I have significant experience in buiding an accounting system. Email me and I will respond with an attached Chart of accounts.
Midwestis,
I stumbled onto this thread because I was perusing the one discussing state-specific forums. One suggestion there was to click on the "members online" in the upper-right corner of the screen. It worked! I found that you are in Michigan.
Is this a great site or what?
Anyway, it was suggested that this might be an opportunity for someone to make some money on this Quick Books thing.
A CPA on the board of our local REIA has done that exact thing. Send me a private message if you want details. I am a newbie and I don't think I can provide that info online.
Frank
P.S. I might not get back to you until tomorrow - gotta go take my grandsons out to dinner!
Yes ! Get a good accountant ! It is fun for awhile to mess with the books and then the fun goes away.
It is more fun to do only what you have to do and send it to the accountant. Get your questions answered, look at statements, and work out stategies for better ROI.
My headaches went away almost immediately after employing a CPA.
At what point you you start using an accountant,? I am getting ready to start my first rehab project, and because I am not accounting saavy, I would prefer to use one asap, but want to minimize my costs also. What do you guys think? How much will it cost?
Thanks in advance.
Brian
The Rehabinator hit the hammer right on the thumbnail. I had my CPA set up the chart of accounts in Quickbooks Pro. She keeps the books straight . I wouldn't have a clue how to keep the books. That's what she gets paid for. I get paid for doing real estate.
suntzu18 - you could hire an accountant the moment you decided to go into realestate, have them consult with you in regard to setting up your company, your books and anything else that you might need to get straight.
Or you could do your first property, keep all the reciepts and then go see an accountant and ask them to straighten you out and get you on the right track.
Or you could wait until a month before your taxes are due and then go see them begging to get you fixed up in order to do your taxes. You could always file an extension if you had to.
As for costs- it falls under the you get what you pay for.
Most good accountants charge like lawyers now. Meaning every time they talk to you the meter is running, every phone call you make to them costs you money. If you live in a smaller town you might still be able to find someone who will work for free in regard to taking up their time, and only charge you for your actual book keeping and tax filings.
In the past I have payed as little as $500 a year, just having an accountant do my taxes, up to $5000 a year, which involved them doing much more, including all the tax filings, payroll deductions, ect...