Change Your Thinking.... R/E Clubs
I'm gathering information for an essay about Real Estate Clubs... I'm not a member of any such organization, but I've attended a few as a guest speaker.
I've often read questions posted by folks looking to join... and spoken with many who had joined...
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has joined a real estate club, and whether your expectations were realized.... and answer me this:
Since 'deals' and 'leads' are scarce, did you experience or perceive an adversarial relationship, or was there a feeling of unity... a cooperative atmosphere... from members who were not hawking a particular product or service.
Any/all comments welcome.
[addsig]
That sounds like a great club to be a member of. I wish the meeting I attended was the same. Seeing as there seemed to be 200-300 members/guests as this meeting I atteneded there was no way the mic would have been passed around.
I wish my experience was a little better, no one talked about anything except for the guest speaker and I guess that's what was so disturbing about the whole situation.
Hey,
I was investing in RE for a couple of years before I went to my first RE club meeting. My goal was to take my investing to the next level. What I found was very different.
GAREIA (GA real estate) is a huge club; at the time I went, there were over 2000 members. The meetings were held once a month in a hotel exhibit hall. In the entry way, there are about a dozen vendors selling different products and services. There was also a large Marketing table with flyers on the different houses for sale. At the time, I had never seen a flyer written by a Wholesaler and was FLOORED by the deals on these pieces of paper. FMV--$200k, Repairs--$10k, Asking--$100k. WOW!!!! I had hit paydirt. Like everyone else, I grabbed a handful of different flyers and walked in to the meeting room.
The meeting room was filled with people and to be honest, I found it a little intimidating. But like anything or anywhere, you have to meet people, they are NOT going run up and shake your hand.
The meetings had two speakers with a marketing meeting between them. The first speaker or speakers were very informative (this was always the case for the year I went), the second speaker was ALWAYS a sales pitch. It took me a while to get my head around this fact.
The Marketing meetings were always exciting. From my newbie eyes, here were the sucessful RE investors offering unbelievable deals. After a while, I noticed that it was always the same guys offering the deals. I actually went and looked at some of these deals (even though they were in different parts of the city, then I normally invest). For the most part, these houses were just shells sitting on rotted wood. I am not calling anyone a liar, but I want to meet the contractor who could fix these houses for $10k. By the same token, I want to meet the OO who will pay $200k to live there.
So after a year here is what I figured out:
Member--The membership falls in to one of three groups: newbies (90+%), investors looking to buy more houses (I count myself here) and Sharks (I can't come up with a better name). Sharks are the people that are selling overpriced houses to the newbies. They are also the ones selling the $150 tapes or $1000 courses. Sharks are the Wholesalers in the marketing meeting month after month and the second speaker of the night pitching his/her product.
I don't think the sharks fight amongst themselves (no adversarial relationship) and I don't think the investors have any problems with each other. But I never felt any great bonding going on.
The club that I attend and have been a guest at is very cooperative. There is a segment of every meeting where investors can stand up and share deals with the rest of the group (mostly birddoggers and wholesalers).
I've met a number of friends at the group that I keep in touch with. We enjoy hanging out, talking business, doing deals together, mentoring each other, etc.
My club has a VERY high turnover rate. Lots of tire kickers that come once and never again. There's a core of about 25% that is there pretty regularly. So there are perhaps 15 regular members in an area of 1 Million+ people. Perhaps it would have a different feeling if there were 100 clubs and hundreds of active members in each club. There are many RE investors who are involved in the market, but not in the clubs. For now the feeling is that there are lots of people learning together.
I'd add another group to Bruce's groups. The ones that show up to hand out cars. Mostly Loan officers, Realtors, and a handful of hard money lenders.
Well I go to my share of these things. I was a board member for several years for a sorta landlords club (not your typical rei club). I go, more than occasionally, to two clubs here in town. And I've probably visited another 8 or 10 others over the years. I think they are a pretty mixed bag. In the end the more emphasis on the speakers the less useful the meeting is. The real point is to get to network with people who are doing deals/managing property in your area.
The other factor that I think makes a big difference is the newbie/deal maker ratio. I go to one club here in town where 100 people show up. 10 or 15 have actually done some real estate. 3-8 of those are sharks. So out of 100 people there may be 5 in the room who are actually there to work. The problem is that it is very difficult for those 5 to find each other.
The most profitable group I ever saw (I never got invited to join) was a group of professional developers who were all deal junkies. They had been meeting for probably 20 years in a neigborhood that had started out as pretty dumpy and the members of the club had pretty much turned it around. Owned their own clubhouse where they rented out the first floor to a Gap store and actually covered all the club expenses. Once a month there was a meeting that consisted of three parts. A business meeting, a dinner, and a poker game. All the real work got done at the poker game (explains why I never got invited-- i'm a lousy poker player). Over $100 pots they would slice up and make deals on million dollar properties.
My own favorite was a sub-committee of the land-lords group. To get to the sub-commitee you had to be a professional, full time developer or manager. Of the 200 members in the larger group that meant there were less than a dozen members of the sub-committee called the Breakfast Club. So we are having breakfast one morning at a local resturant and the Alderman walked through on her way to a meeting upstairs. (Aldermen in Chicago are a big deal. Pretty much mayorial powers in their ward which is an area of about 60,000 people). So she looks around the room (politicians are always looking around the room) and sees this table. Does a double-take. Turns to her companions, says she'll be upstairs in a minute and walks over to us. "I don't want to know what you guys are up to right now. But when its over I want you to tell me what deal it is that is so big it would take all of you to do it." There was enough clout at that table to change the character of any single neighborhood in Chicago in a month.
The other thing that seems to me to be a determining factor is what you might call the Guru effect. The more people in the room there are who have taken some guru's course the less likely it is that any real deals will be done. This is true no matter what guru it is or how many different guru's students are present. At some point the purpose of the meeting shifts. Its not about doing deals anymore. Its about hawking product and selling seminars and mentoring programs. When you get to one of those situations understand where you are. The guru industry has become an entertainment field. Its about telling you about the lavish lifestyle you will be able to afford after you shell out money to buy some course which will train you in some new technique. Its not about buying a building its about your fantasy life.
So I'm working on putting together a little group in Chicago. Will meet every couple of weeks for breakfast. Pretty much invite only. The entire meeting will be q & a and presenting properties. No gurus, no speakers just a few people sitting around a table doing deals.
Is there a REI Club in the DFW area?
I was interested to know if anyone had the same type of experience with these clubs as me and it looks like people have.
I am interested in attending meetings where I actually learn about properties and meet with people who is proactively doing something in REI. I could use less sales pitch, especially as a newbie.
The Denver real estate club CAREI sounds a lot like the disappointing stories here. 90% newbies who are churned all the time. Sadly it just seems to be a great market place for the founder to make money selling his packages to the newbies and taking a cut of the profits to let others do the same.
A "CLUB" to me would much like a Co-op is to farmers. A place where the members become stronger by their numbers such as having free books and tapes to learn from, having access to information and help, instead it just seems like a feeding ground for the sharks.
Hi,
I recently attended an REI Club/Group and was amazed at the number of attendees, the sales pitching of properties, seminars, interest rates offered on invested money secured by real estate and the Guru who pitched his stuff after he spoke about his life and good fortune (without revealing any real secrets) for over an hour. I was mostly put-off by one of the founder’s minions/volunteers who was extremely rude when I inquired about the purchase of some information before the meeting ended.
I did sit next to a wonderful lady that offered us a link to lender info via e-mail and after receiving the link I also received a sales pitch for a trade magazine.
All in all I saw a lot of selling going on, I plan to attend one more of their regular meetings as the previous one was focused on the Guru gust speaker, I hope to find like-minded investors that want to share ideas and experiences for the collective good of all parties involved.
Great topic, if anyone knows of a great group of folks looking to share, learn, educate and profit with one another without exploiting the rookies in the Mass. area I would like to attend/join and would appreciate contact info.
Bobby
I attended a real estate club meeting and it was very good. They often get well known guest speakers. This time they had Jack Miller who I wrote about in an article and who was very entertaining and informative. I will definitely go back.
I have limited experience with meetings. From what I have witnessed, meetings are all about selling a membership or products of some other service. I am basing this opinion on a couple different clubs.
The most hideous thing is when some investor tries to sell me shoddy course material (which is hastily put together) for a ridicules price. Then on-top of this, they have the nerve to give away a bunch of bonuses and make you think you are getting a great deal.
I would say attend a meeting when there is a guest speaker you have heard good things about. At the meeting speak to members and try to get a feel for the group. Do they want to help you grow as an investor and person or do they just want to sell something.[ Edited by JohnLocke on Date 09/21/2004 ]
Quote:
On 2004-08-31 10:54, EMGSTUDIOS wrote:
I am interested in attending meetings where I actually learn about properties and meet with people who is proactively doing something in REI. I could use less sales pitch, especially as a newbie.
Ditto. I also like wannabe21's comment that the local club met on Saturdays. For us corporate slaves, evening meetings 45 minutes away make it tough. I wish SE PA had a club that met on weekends.
The reason I stopped attending these meetings was because they are constantly attempting to sell you something.
In one of my real estate classes, the instructor told us that it is getting difficult for investors because there are so many newbies that over pay. I see this every day. At the meetings, most of the homes that investors were selling were extremely over priced or had ridiculous financing options.
Several experienced investors use these meetings as an opportunity to take advantage of inexperienced investors. These meetings are also used primarily to sell courses.
Nash,
these overpriced houses are the houses that the newbies who paid too much for them were putting back on the market?
Quote:
On 2004-08-31 09:32, Dumdido wrote:
Is there a REI Club in the DFW area?
Three that I know of. PM me and I will send you links.
I am the education director for JaxReia, a 400 member club located in Jacksonville, Florida and have been involved with this group for over 20 years. I can tell you that a club is what YOU make of it.
It is true that all sizeable orginizations have their "Sharks and Clowns". The sharks are after your wallet - with no regard for your welfare. The clowns are simply overzealous operators with limited education and a desire to give advice to others. Sharks and Clowns are equally dangerous! They exist, however in all areas where people dwell.
The key to your success is and will always be EDUCATION. Now my education has been VERY expensive. Had I tuned my ear a little less to the book and tape sellers and a little more to the investors who were actually making money and living fulfilled lives - I would be ahead of my present pace.
I could not, however have achieved my level of success without my real estate club. I met my title agent at a club meeting. Twenty three years later, we are still doing business! I served under Ron Legrand as VP in the early eighties. Ron's next door neighbor is still my partner in my General Contracting business. The list goes on-and-on. A good club is centered around networking and education.
And not every wholesaler is a "Shark". I wholesale in excess of 50 properties yearly and would challenge you to find just one buyer who feels thay were taken advantage of. I also mentor my buyers, providing free classes on rehab, financing, disposition, business planning etc. This educates my buyers so they have the best chance for sucess. I have sold as many as 15 houses to the same person. You can milk a cow every day, but you can butcher her only once!
The best place to find reputable associates is in a legitimate club. Just use due diligence and some common sence. Check the reputation of everyone you consider doing business with! If they put themselves up to be an "expert", they should have verifiable, multiple past customers within the club.
Finally - GET INVOLVED in the administration of the orginazation. Every club is begging for participation. As a board member, commitee chair or just a "foot soldier" voulenteer - you will be in a position to move the club in the direction you feel it should go. Encourage education by LOCAL, reputable investors and you will find your club to be the most valuable tool in your investing career.