New York City Real Estate Market Saturated?
What do you think? Is the NY metro area saturated, or overpriced?
Anyone able to find good deals?
It seems that many good deals are either too rich for my blood (over 1 million) or are just not good deals at all.
Does anyone have experience investing in NYC or the metro area? Is now a good time to invest? Can deals be found?
Sorry I'm so brash, but I'm having a hard time, maybe i need some advice.
My partner and I are somewhat new...meaning we have 5 investment properties (one in Manhattan and one in Ft. Greene, Brooklyn). The others are in the Catskills as the barrier to entry was much easier.
Assuming you are going the traditional route...which is what we've done, and I am now changing that model. Deals are really tough to find in NYC. I have a wholesaler friend who buys REOs in groups of 4-5 buildings in Brooklyn and he is making much smaller margins than in the past. He also has a $1M+ credit line that is important when dealing with REOs.
I know that Bed-Stuy has been hot and there are some deals to be found if you purchase from a wholesaler or can get in tight with the REO guys (my friend is the only one this one banker deals with...no competition). The buildings are a mess and you'll either need to flip it or rehab it yourself. All I can say about rehabbing in Brooklyn is as long as the margins are large enough, it's worth the hassle, otherwise - go north my friend!
Cree Quaker
There is enough for everyone, no matter where you are! You just have to find the deal that is for you. Keep working it, and it will come to you. Good luck
Bed Sty huh. A guy I know buys out there too. I think he's crazy. I mean, I'm a 6'4 265lb white guy, and I'm still afraid of that place.
I asked my contractor if he's interested in working there, he looked at me like I had 3 heads.
I've been looking up north, in the syracuse area. They're supposed to build a mall up there thats going to be bigger than the mall of america.
They also laid off a bunch of people from the Carrier plant, (or so I hear) and there are going to be alot of foreclosures.
You know anything about the area?
pejames:
Maybe the rest of the world has plenty of deals but we're talking NYC here. Unless you've lived it, you don't know it.
Yes, the market is a ballbuster.
The only deals I've seen in the city are shell townnhouses up in Harlem, near Columbia and occasionally down on the Lower East Side.
I'm sure there are others out in Queens or up in Inwood but that's not my territory.
I've found better success in upstate and in Connecticut.
Investing in the city is a whole different game. You have to have big cash, move fast and know how to work around the ridiculous regulations to make deals work. Not to mention cooperative boards, union craftsmen among other things.
This ain't Kansas, my friend.
ny6389:
Look up in Nyack, Pearl River, Middletown, etc.
Lot's of Wall Streeters commuting in from up there.
I went to Syracuse and it's just too damn cold for me.
Bigger than mall of America?
On a hunch, I did some snooping in queens. The problem lies in the school districts. A community with excellent elementary and middle schools often maintain proprty value far above other areas. From what I know of the NYC school system, (my girlfriend works for the NYC "bored" of education), I think that a developing area now might be corona, and possibly jackson heights.
Astoria is high, so is bayside, douglaston, little neck...
A good barometer I use is what kind of cars you see in front of the middle school at 7 and 3. When you start to see hummers and benzes, chances are you've misssed the boat.
A few years ago, a multifamily in astoria was going for half to 2/3 what it is today.
So, I guess deals are out there, but still, NYC is a b*tch.
So how to make money here in new york? Guys?
Do what most NYCers do. Come to Jersey. I am not just trying to be funny. Jersey City, West New York, Bayonne, Perth Amboy and several cities within 15-20 min. radius have some opportunities without the NY regulations and price tag. Hope this helps
Kecia
I'll agree with you on the NJ thing.
I have friends who bought a house in Westfield and the FMV almost doubled in two years.
A very hot area.
My cousins bought a house in Upper Montclair, value skyrocketed. I guess Jersey is a good market. But, its a little too far to travel for management concerns.
I agree with DanDan so, how can we make money in NY? I mean, I don't have a line of credit worth a million bucks.
I went to an Auction last week for properties that were being auctioned by the Public Administration Department of Queens County. 14 properties were auctioned off. There were at least 300 people there. All of these people were serious bidders because they could not attend unless they had a certified check. Most of there properties went for crazy prices during the bidding frenzy. I could not believe it. The sucessful bidders had to come up with the balance of the purchase in 30 days. I guess there is a lot of money around the NY area.
Hire a guy to manage it. No traveling involved.$$ problems. There 10 guys on your chat, Partner, Parnter, Partner with them. Quote:
On 2003-12-19 11:43, ny6389 wrote:
My cousins bought a house in Upper Montclair, value skyrocketed. I guess Jersey is a good market. But, its a little too far to travel for management concerns.
I agree with DanDan so, how can we make money in NY? I mean, I don't have a line of credit worth a million bucks.
I am a Real Estate Professional in NYC - and from what I have learned, yes - it is a tuff industry, a doggy dog world, and all based on who you know. As a single investor, it is hard to step in NYC and prosper, but if you network with a solid group of other people and build a team of people around you, there is no way that you can fail! From what I have learned, the industry in NYC has some of greatest people in the world when it comes to investing, they are very intelligent resources that know about cutting edge loan structuring and miraculous methods in finding properties. It is all about who you know in NYC - and as they say about everything else in the city, if you can do it here, you can do it anywhere!
Send me a PM if you have any questions.
It's a Doggy Dog world in Cali NYC investor, just ask snoop!
I buy multis in queens, and I hold in Syracuse. Mostly sec. 8 in cuse, and the queens multis I got from a relative/broker.
NY is one of the toughest markets, if you are conventional. Everything you do, and everywhere you go there are always people who are going to have more money, more resources, more knowledge, a better team, etc... So what. NY is also one of the biggest markets, tons and tons of property with incredible value. I'm young, and I really don't know everything, but I know that if I don't get my butt out of my chair and start doing, nothing gets done. Oh, and ny6389, jersey is not that far for management.
Ingredients for a sucessful NYC investing career. First, extensive cash reserves and credit line. Secondly, networking, this is one the most cliquish towns in the US. However, that makes it fun, so just get out there and keep swinging. Remember, as a New Yorker you have a duty to the rest of this country to improvise, adapt and overcome.
I thought marines improvised adapted an overcame. Now New Yorkers have to do it as well?? The only marines I see in NY are merchant marines. And they're usually on the 5:22 AM train from Penn Station back to Great Neck puking all over the seats and any other drunks.
Now that I think of it, I saw one merchant marine puke in his hat. I guess that's improvising. He dumped it out, put it back on his head (I guess that's adapting???) then he slept past the great neck stop, so I'm sure he had to overcome something on the way back.
It is the toughest market to be in, because every property is over priced, yet there are people who are ready to acquire properties at any cost; It is very difficult to compete with investors having such an atitude. It is advisable to look at properties in upstate NY, where the prices are better.
I was in New York about two years ago by request of an Investor, who wanted to utilize a team to examine an investment opportunity.
I had done some loft conversions, The target properties were buildings utilized for the Shmatta business. Which business was falling on hard times as making section work garments could no longer compete with the China factories.
Of course they could have converted to single needle operation and produced really expensive stuff, but that requires talent and some fashion sense. So. Within a period of one to two years, these building would no longer be filled.
What to do. a quick look around and the answer was convert to residential use lofts to 1,500 to 2,500 Sq Ft. Apartments. The question addressed was how much conversion should be done by the developer? Should he have an in fit builder on standby ready to do sketches and treatments for the soon to be new tenants and owners.
What kind of services to provide, elevators, walk up whatever.
We busted in walls, looked at electrical and plumbing lines. Figured how to handle, at least two bathrooms in each loft, created staggard levels, etc. etc. etc. Of course the local building trades were bad, not as bad as L.A. but much more profane and they meant it!
The codes to be complied with on changeover were interesting, some of which actualy made sense. Some did not and I could see some form of a reward system would be necessary to keep the local on site inspectors happy. Nothing too different from LA, except considerations of heating, water treatment and sewer connections.
I had lived there on several occasions and I like the feel of the city and the many diverse peoples and foods. What appaled me was the cost to heat those lofts. I went up on the roof thinking about solar panels for heating and for electrical energy, but the sun line was obscured by all the other buildings.
The building I examined was a much better old time construction type then what we have in Los Angeles and that was a pleasant suprise.
The basement was a treasure and I suggested if zoning use could be arranged it might make a great club. You know crazy lights loud music masses of people trying to dance. Exotic drinks etc. Nice little side entrance for that activity.
Now to the next part. We did all of this work, talked to local contractors etc. Produced a study and a plan about 120 pages. Our employers thank us much, gave us bonus checks, lunch and suggested we leave.
I hung around for another 30 days. Mostly in the Museum Oh my God I had no idea I missed it so much. What a treasure now thats where I would like to live.
Our Employer, clever investor, had an option on the building from the owner who knew it would soon be empty. He sold his option and our planning for loft conversion and commercial usage in the basement. He made over $2,000,000. His attorney coped out on him at the New York Fencers Club. I almost fell off the strip. I was impressed. He hardly had the skill to scratch his ear without knocking his hat off. Boychik was klutzy but a wizard at negotiation. .
So if you can make money on somebody elses knowhow and skills. The world is your oyster, and, here was one guy who did. God did he know oysters.
Right smack on Lexington Ave in the City of New York.
Learning Lucius
once again Lufos, teaches us to be CREATIVE!!!!! and have big ones.
[addsig]
One thing to keep in mind about NYC:
The rent laws are HUGELY advantageous to the renters and landlords must fight like hell to evict.
I know for a fact that Virgina has a thirty day process to evict..it's very clean.
But in NYC it is brutal and can take a year or more.
So what am I doing? I invest out of state...Virginia for one but also Connecticut.
I'm considering a small studio on the upper west side that I will rent out as 'corporate' housing, where companies pay a premium to house their visitors in apartments, not hotels.
This first one is an experiment, and I can afford the hit since the purchase price is relatively low.
Otherwise, tho only other deal in the city I would consider is a rehab of a brownstone in an improving area...but only if I had the cash to carry the buidling for a year.
Hey everyone
I agree with a few of you in here. I also believe they are deals in NY . I do agree that its whom you know , but never the less they are avenues.
We can look at the land opportunities out here in NY . They are lots of lots for sale and being auctioned off.
Just gotta be in the right place at the right time as well. I believe it comes down to what area of real estate you are in.
If you are in pre-foreclosure forget it. they are tons of opportunities. If you like land they are lots of land for sale as well.
It all comes down to what form of real estate investing you are in.
Some are in foreclosures, some in pre-foreclosures some are in land development others are in tax liens, some on cash flows.
Overall wise depending on what area you are investing in that would be the key if you are in a tough market or not.
I believe NY is tough and its overpriced , but don't quit looking . That right deal will land on your fingertips.
Happy Holidays To ALL
Elite
To the rocket scientists, donald trumps and Warren Buffet who insist that NYC is overpriced, can you inform us ignorant plebians exactly how you arrived at such a conclusion.
How does the price of NYC's real estate compare to other Global cities like, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Paris and London.
To NY6389: May I suggest the following places for a white man like you to invest:
1. The Kensington section of Philadelphia.
2. Ronkonkoma,NY ( Long Island).
3. Northeast Philadelphia
4. Bucks County, PA
You should feel extremely comfortable investing and walking in those areas . Your money will go a long way. Bucks county will offer you the benefit of being among your bretheren, as it is a haven for the KKK. The school system
there is excellent. You & your girlfriend will be ecstatic should you ever decide that the white man's burden is too arduous a task for you.[ Edited by starmand on Date 12/25/2003 ]
JohnQreplies: Where in VA do you invest? I live in Manhattan myself, but my family is in Richmond. The market out west of the city -- Shortpump for example has been exploding, but you can't rent anything out there. Downtown might be another story.
I am working on some preforclosure properties myself in NY and I agree with some of you, there's no shortage of forclosure situations in NYC. Unemployment rate has been 3% higher than the rest of the country, tons of properties out there, you just gotta find a good strategy for finding motivated sellers.
I have a lake house near Charlottesville but invest all over the state. Short Pump is hot, but I've found better deals in other areas.
re: NYC.
As I posted before, there are just too many variables that make it difficult. Renters have the upper hand and if you decide to become a landlord, be ready for a hellish nightmare. Courts favor tenants and it takes months, maybe years to evict, if the tenant lawyers up. And in the foreclosure market, you better have cash to spend, and I don't mean a bank check. There are too many major hitters around with big money willing to spend on the spot.
ANd we haven't even gotten into unions, permits, city bullsh*t, etc.
Hey, if that's your thing, knock yourself out. IMO, there are many easier ways to make money.
Starmand,
Yes, I'm a white guy, and that ultimately lands me in the KKK? I don't think they'd like my israeli- jewish heritage, or my puerto rican girlfriend. But maybe.
Nevertheless, I'm going to check out those areas in philly sounds interesting. I know of Bucks county, at least a small part of it. From what I understand there's a Russian community there.
You shouldn't judge someone by the fact that they're not willing to go to Bed Stuy to collect rent or plunge toilets.
I didn't realize Valley Stream was such a hot-bed for race-baiters.
Wait, I've never even heard of it. Nevermind.
I could care less about Tokyo, London or Hong Kong. I look for deals locally and the fact is, the NYC is inflated due to demand. It's not rocket science.
So on some advice....
I made some calls, turns out you can get a 2 family in Syracuse for about 20-50K. Fair market rent is about $800 per 4 family.
Section 8 the houses, 2 families, 8 bedrooms, 1600 a month gross, amazing profit potential.
Anyone ever do this or know about this?
I do this in syracuse. Maintenance is high, and for $20K the property will need extensive rehab. Still though, as long as you can find tenants, you are gold.
Arre the laws different upstate?
Is it difficult to get rid of problem tenants?
I do mostly sec. 8 tenants. I screen heavily, and I do interviews whereever possible.
Of course, you have to understand, this is still NYState, and the laws pretty much suck for landlords. However, Sec. 8 is not so bad, because the tenants get inspections. Plus, its a bit easier to evict. I have 2 family houses, and I've got one tenant who pays very little for rent, but manages all my property. He;s an engineer who got laid off from carrier or NiMo, or one of them. He's great, and I never get any complaints.
Skilled construction labor is pretty cheap.
Snow removal is ESSENTIAL!
It's cold as hell (who thought hell would be cold?)
Beautiful in the summer.
Great basketball team at the university
There are some different laws, but different than where? Than NYC? I think the only difference that I found is that the govt officials are less nasty, and more willing to work with you.
Also, be careful if you buy tax liens there.... the liens are sold by the county of onandaga, AND by the city of Syracuse. But onandaga county liens do not include Syracuse City property. So be careful what you buy.
PM me if you'd like some more info.
Thanks for the info.
I did two semesters there at SU on an exchange from NYU.
We used to say it's cold as BALLS, whatever that means. Too much snow for me, in any event.
HAVE TRIED HARLEM, WASHINTON HEIGHTS, SOUTH BRONX, BED STY THERE IS STILL DEALS AVAIL.
Do short sales....I know they work in NYC...You just need to be on the ball...
I'm new in RE investment in NYC, just recently moved here from Virginia. I now live in the Columbia U. area.
For 2 years, I've renovated myself a small rental house my parents gave to me in Virginia. I liked working alone, but being a female in my thirties, the construction work got overwhelming. I'm renting it now.
I'm considering becoming an RE investor here in NYC. Yes, I agree with you, NY is a totally different ballpark than country life in Virginia! But, I'm reading some RE investment books. My parents have 500k cash they'd like to help me start investing.
In the past, I've worked here in NYC at architecture firms doing design, but found it to be of a drudgery. I don't really want to return to the corporate world, a lot of personal politics, but the income is steady. Does anyone suggest I become a investor fulltime or partime until I get the hang or it? Does anyone suggest classes or a Mentor?
My method of investment is leaning towards Fixer-uppers to be sold for ROI. Thank you all for the suggestions to look in Conneticut and NJ.
Because of my knowledge in design and constuction, selling or renting out Brownstones in Harlem or Brooklyn sound alright.
Where do I start? With my experience in rehabbing, what can 500K get me in NYC?
Your suggestions are much appreciated.
gemsre
Funny how these links get brought back to life.
I had no idea there were so many NYC/VA connections. Nice.
I'm not so sure you could call all of VA country...have you sat on the Wash. beltway in NoVa? Not NYC, but not Culpeppaaa...(which is growing, too) or Orange.
So where in VA do you like to invest? I own 3 VA SFH: 2 in LOW., 1 in Northhampton. I'm very interested in the Tidewater area the area around Smith Mountain Lake. Any thoughts?
And now your parents are giving you the opportunity to invest in NYC. Should be an interesting learning opportunity. Good Luck! I've noticed a couple of Virginia Beach investors here so far, so I might make a good connection to guide me. Yes, my oldest son (20's) just bought a SFfixer'shack' in Fairfax Co. near Ft. Belvior for 335K. His commute to DC takes longer than it did from Laurel,Md!
Fredericksburg is an interesting area!
how did this get to be about virginia?
For those who are frustrated by the market in NYC and are starting or investing small, what do you think about rehabbing in Staten Island houses under 50k? Has anyone have any success stories?
gemsre
Dear ny6389,
There are still deals out in areas like Queens Village, NY. You just have to look and be agressive. The RE investing company I work for just bought 17 co-op units in queens along with some mortgages. Since we are not interested in managing co-ops and are only into mortgages, we were offering co-ops them at a great price. As a matter of fact I had them listed on crativeinvestor site. They are $150K worth and are offered at $110K for 2-br apartments that already have tenant that are paying rent. All I got was some BLS emails and no real buyers. I think that $40K in equity give away is a steal. What it comes down that it's easier to wholesale all units to some Big Wallet company re-seller, who will make all the profits.
I read one an article of yours, where you mention that section 8 is mostly what you do. I will be buying a brand new three family in the Bronx and I am considering Section 8 tenants. Not sure what the ins & outs are or where to start. Can you ngive me any insight on dealing with this?
Thanks
Robb
**Please See My Profile**
Quote:
On 2003-12-26 16:03, gamado wrote:
I do mostly sec. 8 tenants. I screen heavily, and I do interviews whereever possible.
Of course, you have to understand, this is still NYState, and the laws pretty much suck for landlords. However, Sec. 8 is not so bad, because the tenants get inspections. Plus, its a bit easier to evict. I have 2 family houses, and I've got one tenant who pays very little for rent, but manages all my property. He;s an engineer who got laid off from carrier or NiMo, or one of them. He's great, and I never get any complaints.
Skilled construction labor is pretty cheap.
Snow removal is ESSENTIAL!
It's cold as hell (who thought hell would be cold?)
Beautiful in the summer.
Great basketball team at the university
There are some different laws, but different than where? Than NYC? I think the only difference that I found is that the govt officials are less nasty, and more willing to work with you.
Also, be careful if you buy tax liens there.... the liens are sold by the county of onandaga, AND by the city of Syracuse. But onandaga county liens do not include Syracuse City property. So be careful what you buy.
PM me if you'd like some more info.
[addsig]