Ron Starr In Oklahoma
Hi Ron,
Based on your experience in Oklahoma, if I follow John Beck's system and try to go after getting the property, and if I invest about $50k in over-the-counter liens that have less than 1 year left in the redemption period, how many houses am I most likely to get ? 1 ? 2 ? 0 ?
Another way to ask the question is what percentage of non-redemption rates do you get on average in Oklahoma ?
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achab-------------
I have bought certicates only in two years in Oklahoma. I did careful research in the assessor's offices and clerk's offices of the counties, to be sure that the properties had improvements and that there were no loans still recorded against them. This knocks out something like 90% or more of the liens which can be bought over the counter.
Then I go look at the property before I buy the liens.
I think if you do this you can get about 15-25% of the properties upon which you buy liens.
With $50K, that might be about 40 liens bought and maybe a dozen or so houses acquired.
However, it takes a lot of time to do the research. I was able to buy about 12-15 liens a week. So, it might take you about three weeks or a bit more to place so much money.
Good Investing************Ron Starr********
Hi Ron,
Sorry to abuse your kindness, but I have one more question. This one about California. John Beck recommends using the tax defaulted property lists as a filtering device to locate abandonned houses in California and take them through adverse possession. I was wondering what are your thoughts and/or experience about that.
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Hi Ron,
Thank you so much for your reply and for having kindly shared your experience with it specifics. This will help me quiet a lot in planning my (summer) trip to Oklahoma.
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Hi Ron,
Why did you rule out properties that had loans?
The improvements I understand (and it is what I also do), but I sometimes like to go after properties with loans as they are likely to either pay me quickly (and give me a quick return on my money) or not at all (in which case I end up with the property anyhow).
Also the lien auctions here occur on 1 day, so how do you stretch your buying out over weeks?
Thanks,
Glenn
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Glenn L-----------------
I bought liens over the counter, not at the annual tax auction.
I was after the properties, not the interest rate return. In OK this is only 8% so it was not attractive to me.
What I do do is to send a "courtesy letter" to the property owners pointing out that I have the lien and that I will be able to get a deed to their property if they do not pay their delinquent property taxes. I also remark that it will cost more to redeem once I start the process to convert the lien into a deed.
This pushes many of the owners to pay up. I want this, as I get back my money right away, not leaving it sunk in the liens that will be redeemed.
Good Investing**********Ron Starr*******
achab--------------
I think that the idea has merit. I think it is a good way to find potential candidates for adverse possession.
However, there are very few properties with improvements that are suitable for adverse possession, even after you work the delinquent property tax rolls, from my experience.
I was considering doing an adverse possession on a house here in Oakland that was scheduled for the Alameda County tax sale some years back. Then I ran into the death certificate for the titled owner. On it was the "informant" who was a son or nephew of the owner. That meant that there was a relative still alive. I did not pay the back taxes. They were paid about one or two days before the auction.
I and a partner bought a house in a very low-income part of Oakland a few years ago on the Alameda County tax sale. Afterward, I talked to a neighbor who told me that the title owners, a couple, had died about six years prior. Their daughter lived in it for a few years, with some other people at least part of the time, then she also died.
This would have been an excellent propety to do an adverse possession on. If I had done research ahead of time, I might well have done so. However, I did not even see the property until during the tax auction. I rushed over there in my car while the auction was going on, saw it, and rushed back to the sale to tell my partner we should bid on it. We paid $16K for it and sold it one year later with just some clean up and a very little work on it for three times that amount.
Good Investing*************Ron Starr**********
I just want to warn those of you not familiar with buying tax liens in Alabama that the redemption period is actually at least 6 years, since you must take possesion of the property after it does not get redeemed after 3 years, and only 3 years after you take possession and you can prove that that you will be given deed to property. OTherwise during the three years after possession the owner can still redeem.
RC
Quote:
On 2003-11-12 23:08, RonaldStarr wrote:
achab-------------
I have bought certicates only in two years in Oklahoma. I did careful research in the assessor's offices and clerk's offices of the counties, to be sure that the properties had improvements and that there were no loans still recorded against them. This knocks out something like 90% or more of the liens which can be bought over the counter.
Then I go look at the property before I buy the liens.
I think if you do this you can get about 15-25% of the properties upon which you buy liens.
With $50K, that might be about 40 liens bought and maybe a dozen or so houses acquired.
However, it takes a lot of time to do the research. I was able to buy about 12-15 liens a week. So, it might take you about three weeks or a bit more to place so much money.
Good Investing************Ron Starr********
Hi Ron, and others familiar with Oklahoma,
I called Oklahoma county treasurer's office today to ask for a list of liens that didn't sell at this and last year lien auction. Susan, the woman I got on the phone told me they don't send out such a list, and that my only option is to search the records using the list that was published before the sale.
This seems strange to me, since the original list had over 11,000 properties, most of which were paid off before the auction or sold to investors during the auction (I searched the first 9 on the list - only one went back to the county).
How did you manage, in the past, to get a list of liens available for resale over the counter ? I am trying to figure out if what Susan told me is right, or if there is a way to get the (shorter) list of the liens available for resale.
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Abdenour ---------------
I just go into the treasurer's office and start going through the tax lien books. I flip pages rapidly, looking for those which were not sold and not redeemed. Then I look at the taxable amount and eliminate the low ones, as I only want to buy improved properties. And low-tax propeties are usually just vacant land.
You didn't think it was going to easy did you? Remember, you are dealing with a government entity.
Good Investing************Ron Starr************
"I did careful research in the assessor's offices and clerk's offices of the counties, to be sure that the properties had improvements and that there were no loans still recorded against them."
Improvements - what exactly does that mean?
No loans recorded against them - does that show up in the county records, and depending on the condition of the house, would you advise contacting the bank to see if the house is REO?
Thanks...
etrain55-------------------
Improvements means something other than raw land. Buildings, fences, driveways, railroad tracks, etc.
From the county clerks office I can see if there is a loan against the property. Few lenders will let the property go to auction on the tax sale. They will typically pay the back taxes and try to get reinbursement from the property owner. That means that properties with lenders are much more likely to be redeemed than those without lenders.
I don't understand what you are asking about calling a lender or talking about REOs. Does not make sense to me in the context of tax liens.
Good Investing************Ron Starr*************