I AM VERY ANGRY, SOMEONE PLEASE HELP AND GIVE ME ADVICE
So I have been working on a SS since Oct. Then 2 weeks before XMAS, the seller calls me and says that a realtor has told her that she can sell her property in 2 weeks for 110k
(She owed 84k, and the property is worth 100k fixed up). I told her that the realtor was lying to her, just telling her what she wanted to hear. She said that she wanted to try and sell it anyway. I said go ahead (knowing full well it would never sell)
This is after the SS was approved, BTW, for 57k to the lender.
Last week she called me to say that she just wants to move forward with me (I told her that I would give her 3k)
Today I find out from the bank that there's a "new contract". I call the lady up, and she tells me that another investor is going to give her 5-9k.
WHAT THE HELL SHOULD I DO???
I am very pissed right now. I did all of the work on this SS, and now some jackass is coming in and promising her more cash and picking up my SS efforts.
Any advice? In my frustration right now I want to call the bank and tell them what's going on. That would kill the deal for her, but I know I shouldn't be so spiteful.
Any investors out there have any good advice for me?
Angry in Arlington,
did you record a deed.
Did you even get a deed signed?
NO-
I was told that recording a deed would kill the SS if the bank found out.
Do you have a signed purchase and sale agreement with her? (Didn't the bank require this when you were negotiating the short sale?)
If you have a contract, I would file a
"Memorandum of purchase agreement" on the
property. This should stop the property
from being sold. It has worked for me
before.
You should have got the deed. You did not have to necessarily record it.
Call her up and tell her you guys had a deal and you worked very hard to get the bank to do a shortsale. Tell her if she does not blow off that other buyer, you guys had a verbal agreement and you are going to file an" Memorandum of purchase agreement." What that does is cloud the title.
Good Luck
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."
[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 01/27/2004 ][ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 01/27/2004 ]
I believe the short sale pro says not to take the deed. I agree recorded title should stay in the seller’s name. The thing is if I can get a seller to convey I will, no second thoughts on that. Some one mentioned your contract, where is it, is it valid? Haul a** and record a memorandum of contract. You have probably figured all this out by now as you have a profit on the line. Yep it stinks what some normally honest people will do when their back is to the wall. Your deal needs to be turned around you have lost all control.
jeff,
your affidavit that you say to file. How is it legal? who signs it?
OOOps, slowly guys, take a deep breath
No confrontation, yet, wait a week. Ok here is what you do. You continue to stay in contact and you hold to your original deal but what you do is meet the competitions offer, but, big difference, in paper. You will pay her the extra when and if you complete your upcoming sale in the future. This allows you to stay even with your competition who are offering her real money, which you know may or may not happen. So meet the offers and inform her that it will help her in her future reporting of this income. Whatever. But keep her going you have a good profit, So don't get pissed, go home throw a sissy fit, kick the dog. No not the cat and stay in confrontation also sometimes called Negotiation.
Go for it Tiger Lucius
I have to agree with Lucius. Let the seller know that you have done tremendous work to get the deal this far. You have done the work. You deserve the MOOLAH.
Next time don't share so much info with the owner. Let them know what you are doing buuuuutttttt not every detail so that another investor can come in and steal it away.
Be fair, honest, and remember that they are backed into a corner. They are looking for anything that wil help their situation. Handled delicately, you can win the owner back to your side. Stay in contact with the owner and continue to let them know that you are there to help.
Wheeler Dealer:
"Memorandum Of Purchase Agreement" is a
type of lien. What you do is fill it out yourself with all the details of the transaction and record it. The person who was suppose to purchase the property signs it with a notary. What it does is clouds the title and prevents from the seller from getting title insurance.
I had a similiar situation once. I had an
offer accepted on a property. I had a signed purchase contract and opened escrow. A week later the seller contacted me and said he had a better
offer and was going to sell. My mentor
gave me this form: "Memorandum Of Purchase Agreement". I filled it out and recorded it.
Guess what, the seller contacted me 3 weeks later and had to deal with me!
I ended up releasing it for 5k and the seller sold the house!
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 01/27/2004 ]
Didn't the seller have to sign slso with a notorized signiture in order for it to be recorded?
No
[addsig]
i WOULD FOLLOW jEFF'S IDEA AND CLOUD THE TITLE WITH A MEMORANDUM.
Although I sure agree that a Memo of Interest is a good idea, it's not on the short list of recordable docs in CA*...so the recorder won't record same.
Must have been recordable at one time, but apparently the CA legislature decided to tighten things up, and they have-a LOT!
Since that is the case, I'd recommend talking to your lawyer and having him/her take some action here to get things moving your way.
*If you'll go by the recorder's desk in any county in CA you can get one of the recording forms that must accompany any RE doc recorded there...and you'll see that only a few docs, like deed, D/T, RE Conract, etc., are by CA law, legally recordable there.
along with a legal and signed buy offer agreement (contract) with the recorded memorandum..you should be ok..i also agree with lucius..let time go a little but keep in contact with lender and seller..there is a legal and binding contract on the table..good luck..
regards-pat
John, would you or some one email me a copy of a memorandom of purchase? Would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
ozzie
**Please See My Profile**,net
Ladies and Gentlemen: Fellow TCI's
I have just done a really big booboo. I must appologize to one and all, I gave the wrong advice in this matter. I got so wrapped up in making a buck I forgot what the whole purpose of the lender taking a loss was all about.
The bank is taking a loss, they put out a sum of money and they are coming back short.
Now we are all smart and we can hide it and fool around and create diversionary paper and somewhere along the path pass on money to the Borrower.
However no matter how I look at it. It is a fraudulent action.
I hate to suggest but I think in this case I would not pass on money to the Borrower. You might put yourself in jeapardy. Not worth it. Can't spell it.
However, I would make your position known to the lady about to lose the house. Tell her you did your best and that was it.
There will be others and from the look of the storm clouds in this part of the world I think there are many similar situations coming into view.
I am sorry, I gave bad advice. Blinded by the occasion as the man said as he kissed the pig.
I consulted with my attorney and he says I should so advise you.
John Locke also lectured me and I have to agree, He is really dangerous out on the road in that mobile home of his but he can still tell right from left and most important right from wrong.
Contrite Lucius
That is funny, I know of someone that recorded a "Memorandum Of Purchase Agreement" last December and it was very effective. I don't know if a $10.00 an hour clerk at the County Recorder's Office is really paying attention? Maybe not.
The whole key here is to "muddy" the waters. Sure you can go to an attorney
and file "Les Pendence", but I would prefer to go the "free" route first.
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
P.S.- Next time get the deed, you don't
have to record it.
[addsig]
A friend of mine who went to law school at the Univ. of Va.,told me that unless you had a written agreement with the seller and the bank you stand no chance of winning in a VA. court.Va. does not give a lot of creadence in court to verbal agreements.
Breathing deeply well ionized air usually helps me relax...
John is right in regards to California but vcrindc is In Arlington, VA where the retaliatory filing idea might work just fine. Since the seller has the" jelly" character (first the realtor sell, second, deal with another investor behind the back) I would first find out if the above described filing is an option in my state than I would simultaneously offer to match the competition's offer while summarizing in few paragraphs the side effect of the continuing disloyalty to a our signed contract (that vcrindc never confirmed existed in the first place).
Where is vcrindc? (He probably went to empty up his anger on that dog Lucius suggested.) [ Edited by omega1 on Date 01/28/2004 ]
Just to chime in here real quick- I've always heard that the number one rule of thumb is to 'get the deed'. Especially when it comes to short sales because you could go through all the steps with the bank, etc. then all the sudden have the seller back out at the last minute- which is not possible if you have their deed. Also I heard that sometimes the person in loss mitigation will even ask you if you got the homeowners deed, just so they know that 'they' wont potentially be wasting their time too...
As far as when it actually needs to be recorded- thats something i'm still trying to find out... [ Edited by newincome on Date 01/28/2004 ]
Quote:
Also I heard that sometimes the person in loss mitigation will even ask you if you got the homeowners deed, just so they know that 'they' wont potentially be wasting their time too...
Interesting. Where did you hear that?
omega1
I heard that at a Jeff Kaller seminar, apparently he's done quite a few short sales. He mentioned that some lenders he's dealt with have told him that they're getting alot of 'amateurs' calling in who dont get the deed from the homeowner and end up causing them aggravation when the homeowner decides to bail out late in the deal.
Yep! I agree. I tried in Alameda county to record a Memorandum of Agreement and the county recorder's ofc wouldn't let me. Can't do that in CA. So, it's worth a try if you can get it pass the recorder's office. I also agree you Lufos continue to negotiate. I'm in a similar situation with a seller right now. She's in probate and has an atty I've been massaging this deal since last year (tax sale lead) and we are finally now getting down to business. Hang in there! Its par for the course!
Val
[addsig]
Thanks for all of the repsonses everyone, but I still think that I'm screwed:
1. Purchase agreement was never notarized
2. Never had a memorandum of purchase agreement completed. Is this something I can do myself and file at the courthouse?
THanks for all of the reponses, it was nice to see when I woke up this morning!
Vcr:
You fill-out the "Memorandum of Purchase Agreement " yourself. The seller doesnt have to sign it. You try and
see if you can get it recorded. If you can, then you are in business. Or, you can take your signed purchase contract to an
attorney and file a lien.
I would recommend trying to negotiate still with the seller. Kill them with kindness. If that doesn't work, tell them
you have worked hard on this deal, they signed your contract and now you are
going to go to your attorney for legal action. That might wake up the seller.
Good Luck,
Jeffrey Adam
[addsig]
Here's the latest. I spoke to my contact in loss mitigation. He told me that the offer MUST come through the listing agent....I know for a fact that they must net AT LEAST 57,400 on this deal.
I think what I'm going to do is make an offer through my realtor. They by law, the tisting agent must take my offer to the bank.
My contact in loss mitigation said that he must take "the offer that's best for me". I guess I'm just going to try and figure out how much I can offer to make the deal worthwhile for me, and to be the best offer on the table. If that happens, then the bank will take my deal, and I won't have to give the seller ANYTHING!
I am correct here?
If it wasn't meant to be, it wasn't meant to be. Over the course of a career, chalk this one experience up to TUITION. Take the high road, and don't dirty your hands with illegal, under the table payments... or taking a deed and encouraging the Seller to lie about it...
I doubt that any experienced, loss mit rep would encourage the taking of a deed as a sign of 'credibility' or competence to proceed with short sale negotiations... since the act of conveying ownership interest in the property INVALIDATES the majority of mortgagees' short sale approval guidelines. If they did say that, and I don't believe that they would ever reduce that statement to writing, it flies in the face of acceptable, loss mitigation practice as put forth in FNMA, FHLMC, and HUD criteria.
In general, the taking of a deed (recorded or not), and negotiated short sales are not compatible. However, If you are willing to lie, and encourage others to lie...dancing around the rules, in hopes of not getting pinched.... you won't sleep as easy as you would if you play by the rules...
Just my $.02
[ Edited by TheShortSalePro on Date 01/28/2004 ]
Everyone,
Thanks for all of your answers. Boy it feels good to start a thread with so many responses!
As for me, I've passed the lead on to a friend. If he can make it work, and throw me a bone after he makes his cash, so be it.
Apart from that, I'm letting this one go.
One last thing: what should I do next time to avoid this blunder again?
Thanks,
Not so angry anymore in Arlington.
vcrindc
I was about to tell you to check with your recorder's office first if they would allow a "memorandum of purchase agreement" to be filed in your state when you came with yet another gem
"He told me that the offer MUST come through the listing agent...."
Didn't you say that the seller went and did the deal with you instead of realtor who promised to sell it in 2 weeks? And ehy would the realtor make an offer to a bank when the bank doesn't owe the property?
------------------------------------------------
Good explanation SS Pro. Reading the one of the above posts, I was wondering how Jeff Kaller can teach people that bank would encourage investors to take the title(?). But in the end, nothing surprise me this days anymore. From a president to a court judge, everyone are politition, carring only about more moeny.
I guess is their wife(s) and girlfriends who needs a new Mercedes or a vacation home for that efect...so the proper answer is: Everything obviously goes this days even if you get cought. [ Edited by omega1 on Date 01/28/2004 ]
Wow, so getting the deed is 'not' advisable for doing short sales? Why do so many real estate gurus preach this then? Even Ron Legrand says get the deed, get the deed, GET THE DEED on his short sale materials and seminars. And between the two of them I would imagine they've actually done alot of deals?
All of the above are good points but as a rule of thumb always get the deed and never record unless needed AND if you record something record the option or the agreement so that they can't even try and give free and clear title to anyone. This way you are always protected.
Well I am on a roll, I just did another good deed and it cost me. So really do not castigate yourselves. I mean talk about shooting yourself in a foot.
Marge Beamer, dear friend of my wife, went into foreclosure. She let it slide right up to the week before the final Trustees Sale. There is now no way she can be saved as her soon to be ex husband is half owner and will not give up a quit claim deed. He will also not sign any documentation and for some strange reason will not participate in any action to save the house.
Any how the long and short I cure the foreclosure by bringing her up to date so that she and the kids can stay put. I secure this strange action by taking back a second trust deed as to her interest undivided. I record same and at the same time wave goodby to the funds advanced.
The following day I get a phone call from the ex husband the gist of which message is to inform me that he has deeded his half undivided interest to his attorney soo there.
I now await with anticipation the call from the ex's attorney, wonder what he wants?
Could it possibly be money?
Is there any equity in this castle slipping on the mire? Not much, it is just another over mortgaged home waiting for the interest rates to go up which of course will lead to it going down.
In any case I await the return of the recorded Trust Deed which I shall paste in my book of souvenirs. Perhaps now is the time to make a really nice wall paper job. I could paste this little document right up there with the Bonds my Grandfather purchased in 1913. City of St. Petersburg in Russia.
Contemplative Lucius
Lucius, it’s interesting to find out that you have Russian roots….I don’t feel as a stranger anymore,
Dmitry.[ Edited by Dmitry on Date 01/28/2004 ]
Ah Dimitry,
We are everywhere.
My sainted grandfather a lawyer who practiced international law. Whenever I did something really stupid, he would run to his lock box and bring out a handfull of the St. Petersburg Bonds, he would wave them in my face. "Someday, "
he would say, " You are going to be standing at a bar and a man is going to bet you $10 that he can make you float in the air." Go ahead take the bet my stupid grandson, and then get ready, because you will be floating!" I am still waiting.
Cheers Lucius
Quote: I think what I'm going to do is make an offer through my realtor. They by law, the tisting agent must take my offer to the bank.
The realtor must present the offer to the listing agent, who then must present it to the seller. The seller is the current owner, not the bank.
Brenda
Btw, FYI Jeff Kaller didn't advocate lying- he mentioned that there was an occasion when loss mitigation asked him if he had the deed and he told the truth and said yes. Then the person in loss mit made an offhand comment such as- 'good, we've been putting alot of short sales together only to have them reneged at the last minute by the homeowner'. Apparently the loss mit departments he's been working with has been getting alot of calls lately from short sale 'beginners'. I imagine they're "on" to whats going on? (perhaps they've figured out someone somewhere is giving 'How To' classes) ..
Kaller says to identify yourself as a financial helper/planner OR simply just a partner assisting the homeowner, which isnt lying but being vague. Isn't it true that we're helping them with their financial problems? Why does loss mit need to know exactly what we're trying to do? Shouldn't they only be concerned with the details of the short sale package? Also, he mentions not to describe yourself as a real estate "investor" (because it sends them a bad connotation for some reason) and don't tell them that you have their deed UNLESS they ask you, then by all means tell the truth. Overall it seems like he advocates being vague, which is definately not lying. Aren't most real estate investors vague by nature anyways? [ Edited by newincome on Date 02/07/2004 ]