Does anyone have an offer that was accpted by a bank on a discounted sale or even a full price sale that I could see. Still new, looking for wording and contextual ideas for acceptable offerings.
I am certainly no expert, but the general rule is redeem up and foreclose down. That is to say that anything above you (in the order of liens)l must be paid first from the proceeds of sale, and anything that is below you will be wiped clean. SO if a 2nd mortgage holder was to foreclose, whatever money they recieve from sale (they can foreclose without the first mortgage's permission most of the time) they must give to first mortgage holder with remainder going to them. Just as an aside if you are going to get into buying foreclosures any attorney who gives you what the banks bid is or "the lowest acceptable price" is not only a complete idiot they are also putting thier license at risk. I find it better to not ask. Attorney's are required to get as much as possible for any property, because what is left after paying all liens and expenses goes to the original owner. This never happens of course, but they still are required to try. If they tell and the owner who is being foreclosed upon gets wind of it they can cry foul and have the whole thing stopped or at least delayed. I have heard of this happening. Hope this helps.
I have one more question. I am sure that this varies by state, but do you guys know if NC also has a redemption period for the owner (person who went into foreclosure still living in the house)?
I understand the implications of the IRS redemption period, but what would be the implications of an owner redeeming the property? Would I get me money back plus interest if I am the one who bought the property at auction?
now, johnmichael what would happen if the 2nd mortgage was foreclosing..would the successful bidder at the sale acquire title or just the note as you suggested in your recent article "Foreclosure Effect on 1st or 2nd"...what do other seasoned investors out there think ....also if everybody gets chance please look at the article that was posted recently, "Foreclosure Effect on 1st or 2nd" and reply with your thoughts on it.
Excellent example radio52-com,
I to live in Ca,Do you know what additional regulations govern preforclosure contracts or as you stated "equity buyout" here in California
and there's a section in the California Business Code, I can't remember the number now, that deals with making loans to owners in foreclosure that combined with CC 2945 as an equity purchaser essentially make it illegal to option a property to an owner in foreclosure.
There's some great books by firsttuesdayonline . c o m that make it very easy to understand the civil codes including one on foreclosure. They're a bargain at $10 each. You can buy them all for $90 and I'd recommend getting their forms disk to. Good luck and shoot me an email if you want to talk more about CA specific stuff or go over to foreclosure forum . c o m.
Can anyone tell me which lien is the most senior in Real Estate?
If it is a tax deed / county tax sale auction? Do IRS liens and whatever liens there are get wiped off? Is property / county tax lien is the most senior?
Because I heard from somebody else that IRS / Federal liens is senior to property tax?
Property Taxes (can never be wiped off)
Purchase money loans
All other liens (refi's, abstract of judgements, IRS, State Tax, HOA, Mechanic's, etc.)
Owner
IRS lost it's super-position right a long time ago. At foreclosure tax deed sales all junior liens are wiped off the property including IRS. If the IRS is not fully paid off they will retain the 120-day right of redemption.
Check the tax assessor's office they should have the date the last tax payment was made. If you're investing in a county where the assessor doesn't release the information then the only other way is to see the owner's most recent tax bill.
We have a property in CA that we forclosed on in 1991 and now we are trying to sell and some medical liens are showing up in the previous owners name. We forclosed w/o any bids so the prop reverted back to us. We held a 2nd and there was no first. The title comp. is telling us that we have to pay the med. liens... this does not make sense to me since the forclosure was posted and the county was informed. Also, the med liens date back to 1980 and 1983-- over 23 years old. We are also having the title company look for any judgement renewals. We were under the impression that liens if any would be wiped "OFF" with the forclosure. Also, there was a county abatement clean up lien :-x that we had to pay that took place prior to forclosure.. Is this correct??? Thanks! :-? :-?
Hi! I found this article on the internet, can anyone explain, I thought Property Tax Lien / Sale is the most senior, but please notice below, that they do not guarantee title to the properties, and governmental and judgment liens will survive. And what does it mean by "the deed will be subject to current taxes due"? Please help....
Tax Deed Auctions
Tax Deed Auctions will be held in Courtroom "A" on the first floor of the Duval County Courthouse, and will begin promptly at 9:00 A.M. The Clerk’s Office will advertise the date for Tax Deed Auctions in the Duval Financial News and Daily Record and also post the date in the Tax Deeds Office and this website at the end of this page.
A Tax Deed is a deed issued by the City of Jacksonville/County of Duval to the highest bidder for non-payment of real estate taxes, which will result in the property owner forfeiting all right by default.
The City of Jacksonville/County of Duval does not guarantee the title to these properties. The deed will be subject to current taxes due. All properties are sold buyer beware. Please note that it is the bidder’s responsibility to search the title for any liens that may be recorded against the property. Governmental liens and judgments will survive the tax deed sale. Quiet title suits are civil law suits and not handled by the Tax Deeds Department.
Tax Deed files may not be viewed on the day of the auction.
If you wish to participate in the auction, you must furnish a picture ID (Driver’s License) for admission to the courtroom. A numbered bid paddle will be assigned to you and must be returned upon leaving the sale. As you announce your bid, hold up your paddle (number facing the auctioneer) so our staff can identify each bidder and record their bid amount. Only audible bids will be accepted and the clerk will acknowledge the higher bid. Your bid must be at least $1.00 higher then the previous bid.
The 2001 Legislature amended the Florida Statutes governing tax deed sales (Chapter 2001-201, Laws of Florida, Section 197.502 and 197.5120). Therefore, effective January 2002, a $200.00 non-refundable cash deposit for each high bid will be required at the time of sale to be applied at the time of full payment.
Successful bidders are required to make payment to the Clerk of the Court in cash or cashiers check within 24 hours after the auction. Failure to do so will result in being banned from participating in any future auctions and forfeiture of your deposit.
For each parcel you buy, we will need cash or two cashiers checks, both made payable to Jim Fuller, Clerk of the Circuit Court: one in the amount of the Documentary Stamps and Recording, and the other in the amount of the high bid. Documentary Stamps and Recording fees must be paid separately from the high bid to ensure faster recording time.
Reference Chapter 197 of the Florida Statutes for more detailed information on Tax Deed procedures. The Statutes can be found in the Law Library on the first floor of the Courthouse.
To identify the classification and obtain an address for these properties, you can go online to the City of Jacksonville ’s website, or you can visit the Property Appraiser’s Office located at 231 E. Forsyth Street, Yates Building, 2nd floor.
[ Edited by ruizhen18 on Date 12/09/2004 ]
Did you do the foreclosure yourself or did you get a professional company to do it for you?
If you did it yourself then did you follow California Civil Code 2924?
If not, then the title company may assume that the medical lien holder did not receive the NOD and is therefore still attached to the property. You may have to prove you mailed them their two copies of the NOD, regular mail and certified mail.
If their lien is still there offer them 10% of the amount to satisfy the lien. If they won't take that then offer 10% to take the lien off the property.
baubie, if the lien is 23 years old then even if it was renewed the statute of limitations should have run out. a lien can be renewed once every 10 years, for a max of 20..so even if they were not notified in the foreclosure at this point they would be wiped out..i am surprised that the title company needs to check for renewals...they should have disregarded them automatically, based on the date the liens were perfected, which was 23 years ago....
Thanks for responding! The title company is telling me that none of these rules: 20 yr limit, or need to renew pretain to MEDICAL LIENS. They are saying that Med liens are a separate issue, with different rules??? Does this make sense?? Second, yes we did use an attny. for the forclusure and notices were sent to the county - which is where these leins are coming from.... any advice? I can't seem to find an attny familiar with these laws locally. :-?
Thanks for the informative response radio52-com.
I took your recommendations and ordered some www.books.They have some interesting articles as well.
I appreciate your effort
i went to an foreclosure sale the other day, and a house foreclosed for 105k, had outstanding property taxes of about $3k and has a FMV of about 125K. this property also has a 7k IRS lien. within days of the winning bidder taking possession, he put the house up for sale. How can a winning bidder, sell the house with the IRS lien? does he not have to wait 120 days?
if he does not have to wait, where does that put the new buyer if the IRS decides to buy back the property from the original winning bidder?
if the IRS buys back the property, what rate is the interest calculated? does the original winning bidder get his court costs/doc stamps,etc. paid back by the IRS too?
radio52-com's post is very good.
I have purchased a property through a foreclosure sale of the 2nd.
My problem is how do I get lesser liens off the title report. In particular city garbage liens.
The city garbage liens placed after the 2nd show up after it in the title report. My understanding is that these should go away with the foreclosure sale of the 2nd. The city disagrees with this.
Another similar issue, how do you get old leases off the title report? These leases have terminated.
thanks
Quote:
On 2005-01-03 13:40, RealtorMojai wrote:
if the HOA foreclosed on the property, will I still have to pay off first and second mortgage owed on the property?
[addsig]
Mneoguy
Not sure why you want to see another persons accepted offer package, are you having offers not being accepted?
[addsig]
I am certainly no expert, but the general rule is redeem up and foreclose down. That is to say that anything above you (in the order of liens)l must be paid first from the proceeds of sale, and anything that is below you will be wiped clean. SO if a 2nd mortgage holder was to foreclose, whatever money they recieve from sale (they can foreclose without the first mortgage's permission most of the time) they must give to first mortgage holder with remainder going to them. Just as an aside if you are going to get into buying foreclosures any attorney who gives you what the banks bid is or "the lowest acceptable price" is not only a complete idiot they are also putting thier license at risk. I find it better to not ask. Attorney's are required to get as much as possible for any property, because what is left after paying all liens and expenses goes to the original owner. This never happens of course, but they still are required to try. If they tell and the owner who is being foreclosed upon gets wind of it they can cry foul and have the whole thing stopped or at least delayed. I have heard of this happening. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the posts so far.
Radio52: thank you for that clear and understandable explanation; your examples are crystal clear. :-D
I have one more question. I am sure that this varies by state, but do you guys know if NC also has a redemption period for the owner (person who went into foreclosure still living in the house)?
I understand the implications of the IRS redemption period, but what would be the implications of an owner redeeming the property? Would I get me money back plus interest if I am the one who bought the property at auction?
TIA!
Thanks for the reply John. Yes, that answered most of my questions quite well. I appreciate it.
Did you get that from a specific website?
Blessings,
Rodney
now, johnmichael what would happen if the 2nd mortgage was foreclosing..would the successful bidder at the sale acquire title or just the note as you suggested in your recent article "Foreclosure Effect on 1st or 2nd"...what do other seasoned investors out there think ....also if everybody gets chance please look at the article that was posted recently, "Foreclosure Effect on 1st or 2nd" and reply with your thoughts on it.
Excellent example radio52-com,
I to live in Ca,Do you know what additional regulations govern preforclosure contracts or as you stated "equity buyout" here in California
Thanks
Hi cragseeker. Yes, the important ones are California State Civil Codes:
890 - Rent Skimming
1695 - Equity Purchasing
2924 - Trustee's Sales Procedures
2945 - Foreclosure Consultant
and there's a section in the California Business Code, I can't remember the number now, that deals with making loans to owners in foreclosure that combined with CC 2945 as an equity purchaser essentially make it illegal to option a property to an owner in foreclosure.
There's some great books by firsttuesdayonline . c o m that make it very easy to understand the civil codes including one on foreclosure. They're a bargain at $10 each. You can buy them all for $90 and I'd recommend getting their forms disk to. Good luck and shoot me an email if you want to talk more about CA specific stuff or go over to foreclosure forum . c o m.
Hi! I'm quite new to all of this, so please help.
Can anyone tell me which lien is the most senior in Real Estate?
If it is a tax deed / county tax sale auction? Do IRS liens and whatever liens there are get wiped off? Is property / county tax lien is the most senior?
Because I heard from somebody else that IRS / Federal liens is senior to property tax?
In order:
Property Taxes (can never be wiped off)
Purchase money loans
All other liens (refi's, abstract of judgements, IRS, State Tax, HOA, Mechanic's, etc.)
Owner
IRS lost it's super-position right a long time ago. At foreclosure tax deed sales all junior liens are wiped off the property including IRS. If the IRS is not fully paid off they will retain the 120-day right of redemption.
What is the best way to determine if there are property taxes that are overdue?
Thanks,
Ryan
Check the tax assessor's office they should have the date the last tax payment was made. If you're investing in a county where the assessor doesn't release the information then the only other way is to see the owner's most recent tax bill.
We have a property in CA that we forclosed on in 1991 and now we are trying to sell and some medical liens are showing up in the previous owners name. We forclosed w/o any bids so the prop reverted back to us. We held a 2nd and there was no first. The title comp. is telling us that we have to pay the med. liens... this does not make sense to me since the forclosure was posted and the county was informed. Also, the med liens date back to 1980 and 1983-- over 23 years old. We are also having the title company look for any judgement renewals. We were under the impression that liens if any would be wiped "OFF" with the forclosure. Also, there was a county abatement clean up lien :-x that we had to pay that took place prior to forclosure.. Is this correct??? Thanks! :-? :-?
Hi! I found this article on the internet, can anyone explain, I thought Property Tax Lien / Sale is the most senior, but please notice below, that they do not guarantee title to the properties, and governmental and judgment liens will survive. And what does it mean by "the deed will be subject to current taxes due"? Please help....
Tax Deed Auctions
Tax Deed Auctions will be held in Courtroom "A" on the first floor of the Duval County Courthouse, and will begin promptly at 9:00 A.M. The Clerk’s Office will advertise the date for Tax Deed Auctions in the Duval Financial News and Daily Record and also post the date in the Tax Deeds Office and this website at the end of this page.
A Tax Deed is a deed issued by the City of Jacksonville/County of Duval to the highest bidder for non-payment of real estate taxes, which will result in the property owner forfeiting all right by default.
The City of Jacksonville/County of Duval does not guarantee the title to these properties. The deed will be subject to current taxes due. All properties are sold buyer beware. Please note that it is the bidder’s responsibility to search the title for any liens that may be recorded against the property. Governmental liens and judgments will survive the tax deed sale. Quiet title suits are civil law suits and not handled by the Tax Deeds Department.
Tax Deed files may not be viewed on the day of the auction.
If you wish to participate in the auction, you must furnish a picture ID (Driver’s License) for admission to the courtroom. A numbered bid paddle will be assigned to you and must be returned upon leaving the sale. As you announce your bid, hold up your paddle (number facing the auctioneer) so our staff can identify each bidder and record their bid amount. Only audible bids will be accepted and the clerk will acknowledge the higher bid. Your bid must be at least $1.00 higher then the previous bid.
The 2001 Legislature amended the Florida Statutes governing tax deed sales (Chapter 2001-201, Laws of Florida, Section 197.502 and 197.5120). Therefore, effective January 2002, a $200.00 non-refundable cash deposit for each high bid will be required at the time of sale to be applied at the time of full payment.
Successful bidders are required to make payment to the Clerk of the Court in cash or cashiers check within 24 hours after the auction. Failure to do so will result in being banned from participating in any future auctions and forfeiture of your deposit.
For each parcel you buy, we will need cash or two cashiers checks, both made payable to Jim Fuller, Clerk of the Circuit Court: one in the amount of the Documentary Stamps and Recording, and the other in the amount of the high bid. Documentary Stamps and Recording fees must be paid separately from the high bid to ensure faster recording time.
The Internet address of the Property Appraiser is: http://pawww.coj.net/pub/property Copies from the public records are available at a cost of $1.00 per page.
Reference Chapter 197 of the Florida Statutes for more detailed information on Tax Deed procedures. The Statutes can be found in the Law Library on the first floor of the Courthouse.
To identify the classification and obtain an address for these properties, you can go online to the City of Jacksonville ’s website, or you can visit the Property Appraiser’s Office located at 231 E. Forsyth Street, Yates Building, 2nd floor.
[ Edited by ruizhen18 on Date 12/09/2004 ]
Did you do the foreclosure yourself or did you get a professional company to do it for you?
If you did it yourself then did you follow California Civil Code 2924?
If not, then the title company may assume that the medical lien holder did not receive the NOD and is therefore still attached to the property. You may have to prove you mailed them their two copies of the NOD, regular mail and certified mail.
If their lien is still there offer them 10% of the amount to satisfy the lien. If they won't take that then offer 10% to take the lien off the property.
baubie, if the lien is 23 years old then even if it was renewed the statute of limitations should have run out. a lien can be renewed once every 10 years, for a max of 20..so even if they were not notified in the foreclosure at this point they would be wiped out..i am surprised that the title company needs to check for renewals...they should have disregarded them automatically, based on the date the liens were perfected, which was 23 years ago....
Thanks for responding! The title company is telling me that none of these rules: 20 yr limit, or need to renew pretain to MEDICAL LIENS. They are saying that Med liens are a separate issue, with different rules??? Does this make sense?? Second, yes we did use an attny. for the forclusure and notices were sent to the county - which is where these leins are coming from.... any advice? I can't seem to find an attny familiar with these laws locally. :-?
Also, these are basic dr. visit/bills liens not medicare or medicad. Thanks, Baubie
Thanks for the informative response radio52-com.
I took your recommendations and ordered some www.books.They have some interesting articles as well.
I appreciate your effort
i went to an foreclosure sale the other day, and a house foreclosed for 105k, had outstanding property taxes of about $3k and has a FMV of about 125K. this property also has a 7k IRS lien. within days of the winning bidder taking possession, he put the house up for sale. How can a winning bidder, sell the house with the IRS lien? does he not have to wait 120 days?
if he does not have to wait, where does that put the new buyer if the IRS decides to buy back the property from the original winning bidder?
if the IRS buys back the property, what rate is the interest calculated? does the original winning bidder get his court costs/doc stamps,etc. paid back by the IRS too?
radio52-com's post is very good.
I have purchased a property through a foreclosure sale of the 2nd.
My problem is how do I get lesser liens off the title report. In particular city garbage liens.
The city garbage liens placed after the 2nd show up after it in the title report. My understanding is that these should go away with the foreclosure sale of the 2nd. The city disagrees with this.
Another similar issue, how do you get old leases off the title report? These leases have terminated.
thanks
if the HOA foreclosed on the property, will I still have to pay off first and second mortgage owed on the property?
The answer is one your other post
Quote:
On 2005-01-03 13:40, RealtorMojai wrote:
if the HOA foreclosed on the property, will I still have to pay off first and second mortgage owed on the property?
[addsig]