Is It O.k. To Ask For Another $1,000 Off The Price At Closing?
Several times I have taken a friends advice to ask for another discount, days before closing.
" Gee Mr.Smith, the new carpet will cost more than I thought, I need another $1,000.00 off the deal to make this thing work. ( day before closing)
3 out of 3 have done it.
1 talked me down to $800.00
comments?
( dont hold back and keep it short.)
DataAttack
Jason
Are you able to justify why you need more money off? Do you get a contractor to give you a higher estimate so you can prove it to them, or are you just dealing with sellers who aren't savvy?
If it were me, I'd say prove it. However, if the sellers are REALLY motivated, they may just not care.
Best, Dave
I am sorry to say that most of your posts shock me. I would not treat the people I come across in the world like objects to be used. Does your word mean anything? Sure you may scare them into giving you the money...you should negotiate the deal upfront and then IF something legitimate comes up THEN ask for more. Duress just stinks. I have noticed some of the people on this site are aggressive in their RE and that is great. But I don't go for your methods.
I had a buyer do this to me recently. I conceded and gave her $1,000. The good will was nonexistant after that. It left a bad taste in my mouth after fixing up the house the way she wanted...paint colors, carpet, wood floors, etc.
Your word is your bond! KEEP IT.
ItzMe
Don't be greedy. I am working a deal now where there is more owed on the first than expected and they are about to foreclose. The second will be wiped out if I wait till Feb to close the deal and buy at the steps. Even the first lien holder suggested that i wait. The second wants $12,000. My 70% number is $6000. I could wait amd save even the $6000 but I am going to offer him $5000. If he says no way then I will just wait and take the cash to the steps. Do not be greedy, if you need the extra to make it work because of higher costs then ask for it but do not be greedy. I hope most investors believe in win/win investing. Pigs get slaughtered
Good LUCK and HAPPY HOLIDAYS
Hope this helps some
Ted Jr
I just ask.
I dont threaten.
I just ask.
as for my methods, I dont sit on the couch and complain.
I act.
I am just trying to get you newbee's to think differently.
I am always trying new things out here.
If 6 million people read the same book and do the same things( c.sheets)
You all will all be chasing the same deals.
If you start looking where the masses are not, well my friends that is where the real action is.
( thanks john Locke for showing me that )
I will never give bad information or lie.
I am in the trenches and I give real world info. I am not paid by anyone here so I will never "push" a book.
If your book is good, I'll tell you.
If it blows, I will tell you.
I wish you all success, for real.
I know that there are lots of deals out here and the sad part is most of you have enough knowledge to make the deal happen, but you wont get off the couch or you wont shut off that F***ing T.V..
Jason
[ Edited by kitabita on Date 03/12/2004 ]
Quote:
On 2003-12-11 09:26, dataattack wrote:
I am just trying to get you newbee's to think differently.
Jason
Well speaking for all the newbies THANK YOU OH WISE AND EXPERIENCED ONE
I dunno,
To me, asking for a measly $1,000 discount just prior to closing is chincy, cheap and classless. I prefer to think that everything we do in life should have an element of class, integrity and grace. Believe it or not, that lesson was taught to me by my instructor in French Commando School many years ago and it has served me well.
C-
I agree, I mean we all want to make money, but at the end of they day you have to feel good about yourself. Better to make sure you have a profitable deal up front rather than use scare tactics at the last minute.
This is a subjective point. If you're off by that much and you need the extra grand, why not?
Moreover, are you in business to "service" other people or to make money?
But, and there's always a but, Make sure you know who you're dealing with. You can blow future deals for being petty.
A guy I know did that, the seller came down $20K on the price of a $4m. property. Turns out, the seller had far more property, and wouldn't sell it to the guy, even though his subsequent offers were higher, because of the bad taste in the sellers mouth.
We're all in business to make money while serving people. REI is about win/win, not target your enemy, pound them into submission, then go for the kill.
You get what you put into this world. It will come back to you in some way, and when it does, you'll remember what you did.
It's Universal law, guys like Jim Rohn, Bob Proctor, Randy Gage, and other multi millionaires will tell you the same thing. You can't escape it.
Business is not war datattack, only in your mind is it that way. And I'm not on the f&^%ing couch either watching TV
Best, Dave
I think its extremely poor taste do ask for a lower price just prior to closing. Yes we are all in the "Business" of real estate and we are all looking to make money. But there is something to be said for honor.
If you were so far off of your fixup costs that you feel you need the extra thousand, I would ask. On the other hand, if this is just your method of screwing the seller (which it seems to me it is), then you have no honor, no morals, and your word is worth nothing. Someday you will most likely get yours as life has a way of recriprocating your actions, both good and bad.
At the end of the day you only have yourself to answer to. I would rather make 1k less and be able to look myself in the mirror.
I've known a number of weasels who grind and squeeze distressed property owners. They disgust me. I'm just hoping that one day these pirates get what's coming to them -like a 2x4 to the side of their head.
Man, make a profit but don't rape these people.
Wow, this thread is getting hostile! I wonder if some people dont just thrive on chaos. I dont agree with that style either, but not my place to tell someone else how to do business. It'll all come out in the wash if they do something dirty. It's a karma thing! Good luck to everyone!!
ok ok ok
I get it.
sorry.
I just finished a negotiation book. took it a little crazy.
geez.
for the sake of playing devil's advocate. getting into this industry is all about not listening to nay sayers. we've had a full page of nay sayers ... and you BOUGHT it, data! don't listen to them ... u do biz the way u do biz! and if someone doesn't wanna deal with u again, send them my way!
hehehehe. ok, now my opinion. man, don't do that! $1k is NOT enough to worry about. if you're 20k off and can justify it, then yeah. but $1k should be eaten with a bagel and a hot chai.
I had a buyer put a credit of $800 for gutters into his escrow instructions and then he left town for a week. In order to get my $$ I had to agree & sign. I have made it a point to let everyone I have dealt with, that knew him, This story, needless to say, I wont deal with him. Been 20 years now & still mad!
thanks jackman.
want a beer?
jason
The short answer is "No", it just tells me that you are poor at negotiations, and not good at them at all.
If the buyer is willing to come down another $1000, it just says to me that you poorly negotiated the offering price from the beginning since you left money on the table. If you negotiated trully as superiorly as you think you did the buyer shouldn't be able to come down another cent.
The flip side of this is do you think it is ethical for the seller to try to renegotiate with you a few days before the closing?
Well said SammyVegas!!
We reap what we sew.
Kevin
I was selling a property two years ago and my profit was going to be about $40K (before real estate sales commission).
The seller wanted some better appliances than those I was conveying with the property. At settlement, I told the buyer that I would give a $1000 concession toward appliance replacement. If that was not good enough, I would declare the contract null and void, then relist the property at a higher number because I knew I could get it.
The buyer accepted, and closed. My profit was $1000 less, but I did not jeopardize $39K right now for the sake of $1k more later (maybe much later).
Many years ago (1984), I had a seller come to the closing table and ask for a modification that would take about $800 out of the deal. I could have refused and walked, but I stayed in the deal because the purchase price was such a great discount from FMV to begin with.
My point here? Keep the big picture in focus. Sometimes, sellers will give small concessions because their reward is already pretty large to begin with. Sometimes, buyers will make small concessions because the deal is really great to begin with.
Just before closing is taking advantage of a time frame that does not sound like a just business practice. now, just before signing a contract is whole nother storie, i can see how that would be different.
[addsig]
I'm a newbie! In many many areas of CRE. I think I will always be a "newbie" and learning.
I guess the question you have to ask is:
"what price for my integrity?" If it can be bought for $1000 then your word isn't worth very much is it?
I have done between 300-400K in my business on a handshake in the last couple of years. My word is my bond and everyone from the local bank to the lumber store can count on it.
I "never" work with people I don't trust, ever!
NOw if there is something that the seller didn't disclose and wasn't noticed on the original walk through needing some work then I would say that is a legitimate nibble.
[addsig]
Quote:
On 2003-12-11 17:34, dataattack wrote:
thanks jackman.
want a beer?
jason
sure thing dude! a tall, thick Fat Dog Stout (or a heineken will do) for me, pleeeeaase!
I did the same thing when I bought my last new vehicle.
At the last second I said " wait, I need to knock off another $300.00 so I feel good about this and tell all my friends about the good deal I got here at the #### FORD dealership."
So why is it ok for cars but not houses?
I think most of you are nuts.
( sorry )
have a nice day
because you are buying a car from an industry that was built around negociation.....not some ones bad fortune or situation....besides, if you only knew what the people in a dealership say about people like you when you leave or the crappy deal you will get next time, you would be embarrassed.
[addsig]
pejames -
I don't see the harm in pointing out what one sees as unethical behaviour. As good samaratans surely we would want to help people see the error of their ways, change them, and minimise the damage they are doing (to themselves, the sellers and others in the business).
People were pretty rough toward Jason, but then, the way he writes his posts he's bloody asking for it.
And just for the record, I would ask for such a discount during due diligence as circumstances required, but not just before closing. I, like most people on here, will stand by my word.
wheeler dealer,
Dude,
If you think for a minute I care what the
$ 35,000.00 a year car salesman thinks about me, your nutz.
They are selling cars for some big Ford dealer, with white shirts,cheap ties, mad at the world, and I wrote a check for my last vehicle,make money on my terms, on my time, sometimes only wearing my underwear.( dont worry, only when I'm at home on the internet.)
I dont want to fight but you all have to open your eyes.
Your competition is not your friend.
This is not the brady bunch
This is business war.
I'm not saying do anything illegal or immoral,
But you better take this crap serious.
I wish you the best and I am here to help.
I learned everything as a result of this web-site, and I will give back to it.
I believe in this.
Jason
The difference between negotiating at the last minute on the car and asking for a discount before closing on real estate would be a purchase contract. You haven't signed a contract with the dealer, hence you haven't yet promised to pay him anything. If you are one day before closing on real estate then you have agreed to the price. One would assume you have alredy done your due diligence, hence discovering any issues that justified a discount and cleared them out of the way. To come in at the last minute and ask for even more is, in my opinion, going back on one's word.
Having said that, only you can decide what your word is worth, and whether you want people to know you as a man of your word. Some day that credibility could come in handy.
And what's all this "this is war" rubbish. As an earlier poster mentioned, it's a business. Like in any business people may not always tell the truth, and one must look at for one's interests. RE would be a terrible way to make a living if one constantly felt the need to "battle" with others, instead of just trying to do good business.
Dataattack - you are never going to believe this especially based on my postings to you, but I have been one of those car salesmen in the white shirts and cheap ties. I even sold Fords at the end!
I did it for 4 years and was always in the top 3 in sales everywhere I worked. I made way more than 35k a year too.
I continually out sold the hard core guys, (which you would have been one of if you came to work there) each and every month. The majority of my deals were always win/wins, my customers left thinking I was from another planet, they never knew you could buy a car so easily and painlessly.
By the way, I didn't make up for it in quantity, while my volume put me in the top 3, my total gross profits were usually double of the top guy.
As I said before, if you would have been my customer and asked for another 300 off the price so you could feel good - this never would happen, because by the time we got to that point you wouldn't ever be in the state of mind to think (1) that there is another 300 to come out of the deal, or (2) have the nerve to ask me for it. You see, if you did ask me something as stupid as that, it would mean I had failed at my job, and would have meant that I took you to the desk to work your deal before I should have. The majority of my deals were what were called 2 pencil deals. The length of time it takes you to negotiate a car deal is directly proportionate to how bad of a negotiator you and your sales man are.
Meanwhile I know for a fact that I made the higest profits off of people like you who thought they were shrewd negotiators, but in reality we weren't even playing in the same game. I would have always been at least 3 steps ahead of you at all times.
Now how the hell did I achieve that with my attitude so different then yours? That must just rock your world.
[ Edited by The-Rehabinator on Date 12/13/2003 ]
Wow, we have a barn-burner. How about the good old golden rule...my 4 year old is just learning it, I hope she remembers it long after I am gone...
Quote:
On 2003-12-13 21:35, norrist wrote:
Wow, we have a barn-burner. How about the good old golden rule...my 4 year old is just learning it, I hope she remembers it long after I am gone...
Those with the gold make the rules??
Rehabinator with the snap!
Quote:
On 2003-12-13 22:10, MrMike wrote:
Quote:
On 2003-12-13 21:35, norrist wrote:
Wow, we have a barn-burner. How about the good old golden rule...my 4 year old is just learning it, I hope she remembers it long after I am gone...
Those with the gold make the rules??
I was thinking of the more traditional version: "Do unto others..."
Sammy - I'm with you 100% man - and I admire your huevos to speak your mind.
[quote]
On 2003-12-13 21:01, The-Rehabinator wrote:
By the way, I didn't make up for it in quantity, while my volume put me in the top 3, my total gross profits were usually double of the top guy."
So your here bragging about selling the same cars for different prices?
You could sell a car for more than your co-workers?
Then that is GREAT salesmanship. You are truly a pro.
( but what about all the people walking around in your town that overpaid for they're cars. all of the "suckers". )
We are nothing alike.
You want to know what I do?
I can take a house with 0 equity.
Move the bad people out, move new good people in, and make $15-30,000.00 while doing it.
In the process, I saved someones credit for 7 years, and sold a house to someone who couldnt get his own motrgage.
That is win/win
You selling a little old lady a new Ford for top dollar isnt a win/win.
Your not helping the old lady, your only helping you and the ford dealer.
I dont want to fight with anyone,But if you think you were helping people by selling over priced cars then please pass the. bong because your high .
Why do you consider selling a product for the retail price over priced or taking advantage of someone? That window sticker is called a Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. Sorry, I don't think anyone ever paid too much for a car they bought from me, in fact I think they probably got more for their money than they had ever gotten before.
Also, once again you show your inexperience because you are fixated on price.
The first thing you should learn is you don't sell on price. Once you start with price there is nothing left to talk about except how much less you are going to take for something.
You sell cars, houses, horses, ice cream cones - and get this - YOURSELF on features and benefits.
Just as in any sales when you meet a potential customer you need to sell yourself, your features and your benefits to the homeowner you are trying to work with.
Its all about what you can do for them, not what you are going to get out of the deal. Once you do that the numbers always fall into place, and very easily and favorably. If they don't you jumped to the sale too quickly.
That's why I keep telling you, that you just sound like an amateur kid, since you are so concerned with weaselling another few dollars out of every deal you are in.
If you did your deals correctly like a pro, there won't be any dollars left to weasel.
Sorry, I don't know you, I can only judge you by the way you come across in your postings.
I think it is excellent that so many people think this tactic is classless and is not self serving. My reputation is worth a lot more than $1000.00. I bought an expensive home FSBO, and the attorney who I bought it from tried to have BUYER pay for sellers title policy. Out of 1900 I negotiate down to paying $250, just to keep the deal in tact. Mind you, he also lives in my tract. So for $250.00 he now gets to have me tell all of his neighbors how cheap and shady he is in his dealings. I am sure it will cost him at least 1 client. Break a deal face the wheel!