Calling Pre-foreclosures And The No Call List
I see that there seems to be three schools of thought on contacting pre-foreclosures using foreclosure lists obtained by various ways such as your counties or other services.
Sending letters through the mail, calling and knocking on the door.
For those who are choose the calling option, how do you get around the no call list?
The verbage here in Colorado is very precisly defined and clearly states that you can't contact them with cold calls.
The only exceptions are:
Calls by or on the behalf of a charitable organization as defined by law.
Calls made with the citizen’s express invitation or permission.
Calls by or on the behalf of any person or entity with whom you have an “established business relationship” as that term is defined by the Colorado “No-Call” law.
Calls made within 30 days after you have been contacted by a citizen inquiring about the potential purchase of goods or services or until the citizen requests that no further calls be made, whichever comes first.
Calls made for the sole purpose of urging support for or opposition to a political candidate or ballot issue.
Calls made for the sole purpose of conducting political polls or soliciting the expression of opinions, ideas, or votes.
The Colorado No-Call Law does not apply to business telephone(s) or fax numbers and it does not apply to wireless, mobile or cellular telephone numbers.
This is the Colorado statue, so your state may vary, but the Federal No Call list is just about the same.
Summing it up, it seems you simply cannot call a homeowner in foreclosure
unless they have contacted you first.
How are some of you legally getting around this, or are you just doing it illegally?[ Edited by The-Rehabinator on Date 12/17/2003 ]
I am looking to buy something from someone. The profit I make is not my fee for services rendered. It is my profit for buying and selling.
Telemarketers sell things to people.
Am I missing something here? If I happened to drive by and saw an old used car, and I am a parts dealer, would it be wrong for me to look up in public record, get the name and number, and see if they wanted to sell me their car for parts?
I WANT TO GIVE THEM MONEY, not take it away.
I am open to hearing how others feel, and the REAL clincher would be to get someone to step up and say either
1. I am being sued because of calling people to buy their houses
2. I have been threatened with suit because I called people to buy their houses
I have not seen a post about these kinds of experiences yet.
Thanks, Dave
So Dave, your reply is simply that you don't qualify under the terms of the no-call list?
Here, if you are calling a person in foreclosure, and you are not just calling to say hi, but are calling as a representative of your business, then you are considered a business soliciting a consumer and fall under the no call laws.
You said Telemarketers sell something. Technically that isn't true. The Telemarketer is usually an employee/representative of a business, the business is in the business of selling something. Further "selling" is very defined and isn't what the broad definition entails according to the verbage. Telemarketers are not referrence rather Telephone solicitor.
"Telephone solicitor" means any person or entity that makes or causes to be made a telephone solicitation.
"Telephone Solicitation" means any voice or telefacsimile communications over a telephone line for the purpose of encouraging the purchase, sale, rental of, or investment in, property, goods, or services.
There is even a warning with our MLS sevice for subscription to their preforeclosure lists that you have to register with the state and follow the do not call registery rules.
I'm not trying to argue with you on your thinking, I'm just posting some more information.
It seems to me that they are stating that if you are a business and you are calling someone who has registered on the do not call list and you don't qualify under one of the 6 exceptions listed in my first post, that you run the risk of being in violation of the law.[ Edited by The-Rehabinator on Date 12/17/2003 ]
Rehabinator:
If the definition that you are reading is from your state's statutes then I would say that it definitely proscribes the type of conduct here (calling folks in preforeclosure). Thats a pretty broad definition. My review of the Federal do-not call rules show a much narrower definition for solicitation. I would say your state is taking a much more aggresssive approach to stamping out unsolicited telephone calls.
Real Estate Agents are not allowed to call potential sellers and buyers anymore. We can't even call FSBO's unless we have a buyer in the wings. It seems logical that others would not be allowed also, but I could be wrong. The fine, if you are turned in, is $11,000. I know "they" are just chomping at the bit waiting to make an example out of someone. I can think of better uses for $11,000.[ Edited by makingaliving on Date 12/18/2003 ]
I guess if anyone is concerned about the no call list, then just dont call. I have not called anyone yet, but I have gotten lots of call from letters and the next best thing I know of is knocking on doors. My advice is stay away from something your not comfortable with and focus on other avenues of contacting potential clients. Good luck
Below is an important distinction regarding the DNC List taken from the FCC website:
As noted in the NPRM, § 1011(b)(3) of
the USA PATRIOT Act amends the
definition of ‘‘telemarketing’’ that
appears in the Telemarketing Act, 15
U.S.C. § 6306(4), by inserting the
underscored language:
The term ‘telemarketing’ means a plan,
program, or campaign which is conducted to induce purchases of goods or services or a charitable contribution, donation, or gift of
money or any other thing of value, by use of one or more telephones and which involves more than one interstate telephone call. . . .
Since the majority of us plan on making calls in our own area and state, we are automatically exempt. Another way we are exempt is we are doing the purchasing, not the person being contacted.
[addsig]
Tim, I understand the argument used by most of us now that we aren't 'selling' anything. But if you are under the impression that you have a loop hole that as long as you only call homeowners in your own state that are on the do not call list you are not violating the law, that is just naive. You better do some more reading. You are taking something out of context that is further defining the rules not establishing them.
I believe that the issue that Tim brought up is simply that if you call people in your own state that you do not fit the definition that it is an interstate call. But I do not see how this can be only against interstate calling.
I would say, as mentioned before, either go to their door if you are a people person and in a hurry to make contact, or submit a letter to them. I believe at that point you could follow up with a phone call. Don't get into a sticky situation if there are other ways around it.
There's too much confusion and it's too early in enforcement of the DNC law for me to feel comfortable. My understanding is that you will be warned before you are fined. A distressed property owner may view your call as a perfect opportunity to relieve their frustration. I'm told that the fine proceeds does not go to them. They can sue in small claims court but I think that they can only collect $250 (not sure).
I don't think that the loss of telephone solicitation to preforeclosures is much of a detriment. Most of them don't answer their land line phones and/or have had them disconnected.
The good news. A FSBO ad is an invitation to call. Unless the ad specifically excludes investors, you can call. I'm also told that Realtors can not call FSBO's because it is presumed that the owner, by placing the ad, has decided to eliminate Realtors and do it themselves.
where do you find the list of Preforclosures?
at the county office, at the real estate offices< do i contact a realtor? where do I initially go for an owner in preforeclosure?
I know that solicitations by mail are far from illegal because I get unwanted junkmail and postcards all the time. I call and complain to the post office to have that junk thrown in the trash and they tell me its illegal to throw other peoples mail in the trash whether its junk or not. I do alot of direct mailing to homeowners and it brings in the best leads.
What if you are not a business? I send letters first to preforeclosures as just me, wanting to help them out of foreclosure by purchasing their house. Only if I get the deal does a compnay come into play. As far as they know, I am a person wanting to buy their house.
Do you think I can get slammed anyway?
The DNC list has caused quite a stir in the Real Estate business. I call all the time and so far haven't had any problems. From what I've been able to find out regarding what happens if you do get "caught" calling someone on the DNC list is one of a few things: a) a warning b) a first time fine of $100 c) nothing. Someone wanted to report an agent in CA and the FCC basically said that they had enough to do going after the major telemarketer much less an individual real estate agent.
Basically it comes down to this. Most people don't view real estate calls as telemarketing solicitations and even if you get someone who does complain to you or calls you out saying they are on the DNC list if you aren't a "jerk" about it 99 out of 100 people won't do anything. Just don't be a jerk.
Also, I have found that when someone says they are on the DNC list I'll apologize and say, "When scrubbing my list against the DNC list I must have missed your number. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. Good bye."
One property at a time,
Running Q
If you feel it is illegal to call then mail a letter stating your interest in their www.property.Give them 10 days to respond,then go knock on the door and ask.You also could check with the attorney generals office in Colorado to get a clarification of the law,and best of all it's free.