Be Very Very Careful> Liabilty
I am just starting back up buying distresssed property.
I have been doing this for 25 yrs> I buy during bad ECON times which are now.
I have come on here just to check things out.
Also have read advice ect here and everyone here needs to know this.
About 80% of it is DEAD WRONG.
Go to the subject to forum and read about a couple doing these who are now getting the Attorney General all over them now. I bet they took some class and went on there merry way>
They have got serious troubles now.
If you think this is a liabilty free situation think again..........also 3 weeks of experience will just not cut it buying RE in very unusual ways>that usuallyhave MAX liabilty.
People are literally stating actions/processes that are against state code for ones state.
Better know what u are doing>team up with an old timer folks.
Some of the posts here are good but most dead wrong.
I am certain I am going to get grief for this post but BASH away!!!!
SKI
skidoddle,
Normally when reading posts most of the times when a poster is in trouble they forget to tell the entire story of what really happened. So pre-judging someone's strory with out all the facts reading the post may tend to slant in the posters favor.
The old adage their are two sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth applies on any forum anywhere.
Quote -
Go to the subject to forum and read about a couple doing these who are now getting the Attorney General all over them now. I bet they took some class and went on there merry way>
They have got serious troubles now.
Unquote -
What kind of serious trouble do they have, you seem to know something the rest of us don't? This is a perfect example of what your are trying to tell posters not to do yet you are doing it yourself. Aren't you in fact guessing without knowing the whole situation?
I could not agree more that a person needs to follow good business practices when first starting out, because this industry we are in is a business and a person should learn how to do it from a knowledgeable person.
John $Cash$ Locke
Johne I would agree with u ......if you do not know the facts do not make an assume>
ASS out of U and ME = ASSUME
I am literally going with thier statements
AG office had a interview did not go well now they want ALL of my short sales I did.
Johne I have just been working with an AG on 2 different matter.
BELIEVE ME YOU DO NOT WANT THE STATE AG OFFICE EVEN SNIFFING NEAR YOU.
Thier powers are wide ........that is why what Kansas AG of is is going after WCOM .......
From thier own Post it does not look good BUT THEN MAYBE THEY HAVE overstated their situation.
SKI
Posts were also made that they should not go this without good legal counsel. That is not leading them astray. This was the best advise they could get. They came here. Only time, good legal help and prayer will see them through this.
Dealing with the AG is not good for most people. The outcome of what happens with them could affect the how states see the subject to deals and any other re transactions.
TX R/E laws have be adversely and positively affected due to AG and other entities "sniffing" around into R/E deals. Mostly adverse for Investors but some really positive things for consumer homeowners.
This agency in particular is a double edge sword like most govermental agencys and the blade can cut both ways. Good can come out of their "sniffing" and so can bad. To generalize is common but I think you are being unfair to the members of this board. Many post based on their experiences I would hope, but nothing is certian. John is correct in his statements.
Go easy, there is always much not seen and info that you get is one side to a story. But that does not mean that either party is right or wrong.
I'm not bashing. But don't call the kettle black. Everyone has an opinion and this is a country of free speech, no one put any guarantees that you have to be right 100% of the time. What happens to you may or may not be the same experience for someone else in the same situation. [ Edited by Dreamin on Date 09/06/2003 ]
Skidoddle,
On reading your post, I observe that you write about bad "ECON" = economic? times now.
May I point out that we are NOT in bad economic times, quite the contrary! We are doing just fine economically, in the USA, I mean. All the negative talk about bad economy is just that: talk, by leftist people and newspapers, etc. They are trying to create a negative economic mindset. The purpose of it is political.
That was the first point I wanted to make, before going onto point # 2: suggesting that Subject to is a bad RE strategy. Maybe you have no idea how it works, if you don't then first inform yourself about the strategy and then form an opinion. It is an absolutely legal strategy, I researched it, and on the Louisiana website, for instance, they have it on their laws.
It is a strategy that will not harm anybody, quite the contrary, it benefits ALL parties: the seller, the lender, the buyer and the investor. You cannot get a better strategy in my opinion.
If somebody got "in trouble", as we all could read on the post mentioned by you, that doesn't mean that somebody using the Subject to strategy did anything unlawful. As we all could read, the unlawful people are those who complained about the investor. They are trying to pull off a scam using the law in a frivolous manner, which in itself is a crime punishable by law!
The AG in this case appears to me, to be an airhead with an inflated ego trying to make herself a name on the back of the people using the law in a frivolous way, abusing the powers acquired with the position she has.
The investor accused by these scammers should get a very good attorney who is not afraid to tackle this AG and the scammers, and I wish him/her all the best and great success in uncovering the hidden agenda of both the accusers and the AG! Jealousy could be a main factor in the whole case.
I work very often and very closely with the DA's office in my County and with several lawyers and Judges. I told them what I do in CREI. Their opinion is that it is a great way to help ALL parties, and they will call on me if they want to sell their house or if they want to buy one, the only thing they don't know is a GOOD RE attorney, they have tried to find me one, and since that failed, they advised me to just compare my paperwork with the ones in the Public Records.
Your opinion of people doing business in RE without training, as you implied, is a very negative opinion about people you don't know, never be hasty in forming an opinion if you don't have all the facts.
It is very possible that the poster didn't write all the details of the transaction, and wrote the post in an emotional state of mind.
Also, the poster implied having done multiple Subject to transactions, which suggests that the poster has experience in the strategy and has been successful.
It is always very easy to sit on side line and criticize others, especially if the side line sitter doesn't know how that particular game is being played.
By the way, Skidoddle, if in your opinion the advise given on this site is for 80%dead wrong, what are you doing here? Obviously you don't need any advise, you know it all (better) with 25 years of experience, and apparently you are not going to share your good advise with us, so, I ask again: why do you come to this site? Just to criticize?
Ladybug[ Edited by Ladybug on Date 09/06/2003 ]
Welcome to the forum. Most people do want to hear all opinions on the post and subjects we read here.
But maybe pick certain post you think are wrong and give more info on why you think it is wrong. On Sub2, from what I read, there is to many people doing it in different state for it all to be wrong.
We all like to share our experience to learn and help others. Hope you will stay on board to contribute and look forward to some interesting debates.
LadyBug it is time someone actually posts some of the negative sides of the coin here
From You>
The AG in this case appears to me, to be an airhead with an inflated ego trying to make herself a name on the back of the people using the law in a frivolous way, abusing the powers acquired with the position she has.
The investor accused by these scammers should get a very good attorney who is not afraid to tackle this AG and the scammers, and I wish him/her all the best and great success in uncovering the hidden agenda of both the accusers and the AG! Jealousy could be a main factor in the whole case.
> Hmmm interesting comments about an state AGs office
I really like the AIRHEAD comment and also EGO one too!!!! And the mention of AGs being scammers really is a good touch too!!!! Boy or should I say Girl would I love to work by you everyday!!!!! Please pass a sledgehammer!!!!
More interestng about your involvement with the courts >hmmmmmmm
Seems you have a very good opinion about AGs to say the least.
I would like to see you take on an AGs office>
not for me alittle to powered for my taste.
Hooo Humm I quess this is not the site for alittle good ole opposite view point!!!!
Certain you do not want to go back to Iraq where NO OPINION is welcome!!!!
SKI
Hey,
I love how these things twist and turn!
I thought Skidoddle had two very good points in his commens.
One, that some of the information presented on this site is factually incorrect. He stated 80%. I don't believe that number is correct, but his point still has merit.
Two, that three weeks of CREI does not make you an expert.
I could not agree more with him. There are tons and tons of newbies on this site. On the one hand, they will believe anything anyone tells them. And on the other, they will explain in great detail how to structure a deal. The blind leading the blind.
To back of his points he shows one example, the person with the AG breathing down their back.
I can't really comment on that series of posts, because I am not living through it. BUT, I can say that no one is going to write bad things about themselves. In my stories, I am always the hero.
Subject To are not illegal. And, as long as both parties understand the process, they are not immoral or unethical.
BUT they are not without risk.
For the Buyer, the bank CAN call the loan.
For the Seller and the Lender, the buyer can stop making payments.
I maybe wrong but I think Ladybug works in the courts, so she probably knows ALOT about lawyers.
But I don't understand her comments on the economy at all.
Ah, debate is a wonderful thing ;
With regards to the economy, and all things political (I know I'll probably get bashed for this...)
Look at the Ladies location, Oklahoma, this is a Republican state, and of course she would point that it is a leftist agenda or the liberal media, etc. etc. In her state, (although she mentions the USA) and her city the economy is good.
I think that the Gentleman, Ski, has made a valid point. In his area, the economy might be bad. Case in point, not knowing the Gentleman location.
I would submit, we have have lost over two million jobs nationwide. We have the highest rate of un employment in nine years. We have the highest number of foreclosures in years. Are these all bad things?
Not if you make a profit.
Good economy? Bad economy? I think both make for great real estate investing.
May the debate continue.
Best regards to all,
Clint
Just some opinions I have.
There is nothing wrong with having opposing opinions.
Someone asks what color should I paint my house a poster replies earth tone colors another poster says solid colors. This is opposing opinions.
A poster asks about the Attorney Generals Office because they have a problem. First this post belonged in the Legal Forums area and one of the attorneys here at TCI could have answered. If you read what transpired concerning the AG post there are many different opinions, with some really bad answers. Then the attorneys showed up and straightened this poster out.
What if this person listened to one of the bad answers. Problem compounded.
You can watch a new person turn into a pro investor in about 3 weeks after being on the boards. They read a post about a particular area of investing, then reply to a post like they have been there and done that. Normally you will see one of the pro's who post here jump in and set things straight for everyone's benefit.
When I first started posting here one of he things that did not appeal to me was I liked the rolling threads that some of the other boards have. Then as time passed I began to understand why the different forums.
I am not a buy & hold person so the landlording forum is an area that I would consider myself an expert in. You will find posters that post in every forum regardless of whether they have a clue on how this particular method of investing works. This poster is probably trying to move up in the rankings even if there advice is wrong or they want to look like a pro for there own ego.
Everyone who posted on this thread was giving their view, nothing wrong with that it was basically just giving opinons by different posters.
It is when a poster starts giving advice when they do not know what they are talking about, these posters are easy to spot by someone who has been there and done that. I have seen posters who have made hundreds of posts and have never done a deal and they are giving advice. This is a fact, because I have talked with some of them.
Just keep the posts business and not personal, no name calling, SHOUTING or something said in poor taste.
John $Cash$ Locke
Basically Johne I am for anyone trying to make money and getting out and doing it.
But MANY of the posts and posters sound like a bunch of 16 year old cheerleaders all saying RAHHHH at the same time.
I think alittle braking comments are worth while ........maybe it will help someone here from driving off the cliff.
SKI
Skidoodle:
Like most other things in the world, anyone reading these posts should adopt a caveat emptor (buyer beware) type of mindset. Unless you have confidence that the person who is posting the information knows what he or she is talking about (this is easily verifiable by simply reviewing their last 5-10 posts), you should do your own independent analysis. It is easy to simply rely on the advice of others, especially if you are a newbie. But part of the learning process is the ability to question things and to do your own research and arrive at your own conclusion (i.e. think). It is always beneficial to bounce ideas off your peers in order to get a "collective" view of what to do in a given situation but that should only be done AFTER you've done your own exploratory analysis. There are no shortcuts in this business and one should not expect another person to do their homework for them.
I too believe that there are some folks on here that simply post for the sake of collecting those little houses that appear above your name. Unfortunately that is the cost of having a free board and quite frankly it isn't a bad thing. It gives you the ability to decide for yourself who knows what they are talking about and who does not.
As far legal advice on this board. There is way too much of it. The often recurring question "is this legal in my state" is often answered by persons who may (or may not) know what they are talking about. I regularly answer questions in the legal form with the caveat that the poster refer to an attorney in their own state or do their own research. There are few generally acceptable legal principles (such as contract law). Most law in this country is statutorily created (federal and state) and state laws can vary considerably from state to state. My suggestion to those posters who often ask "is this legal in [insert state name]" do your own independent research (if you can read you can formulate your own opinion) or ask an attorney who is admitted in your state or otherwise pratices in the subject area. DO NOT take the advice of people who may or may not have a clue what they are talking about.
Just my two cents.
J
Ladybug, in my area times are pretty tough. I don't know about the whole entire (like those english skills?) US of A, and don't care because it doesn't affect my daily life. But here, Jobs are quite tenuous, there is not a lot of business trying to come to the county, interest rates are down (bad for the old folks with CD's), Lot's of houses for sale and not moving fast, slower car sales (I am a dealer). I have had the AG contact me (1 time) in response to a buyer who said I overcharged him. I gave a written statement and that was that. However, if the AG would have requested a sit down, there is NO WAY, I repeat NOOOO way I would have done so without counsel present. Too much to lose.
Skidoddle,
I agree, some of the posters are incorrect. I do not believe 80%, but some. A lot of the questions are answered from a theoretical point of view and are close to what I view is correct. Some are way off base. I wish you would site specifics and weigh in with your advise and straighten out what you believe is wrong. Most people try, some do well, and some...
[addsig]
Sawn I post when and where I can.
But really someone here just needs to place some warning posts.
Ladybug must not be in the real world because the ECON was in mess and now slowly coming out of it. Geeez I wounder where the heck she has been for the last 3 yrs.
You sound informed and know your Biz> good to have more like u here.....I would think u would carefully research a new process before every trying it and then making a few dry runs.
I made over 5-7 yrs of try runs till I ever bougth my first property.....first biz and so on.
What I am finding out is that there are so many goof-balls out there trying to swing any kind of RE deal that one is tripping all over them when I do my process.
The problem is that they create a higher liabilty in the RE process because they are not experienced and make mistakes.
I just try to go to some quiet area and do my thing.
SKI
Here is the theoretical reply.
If you are making money, your business is successful, and life is good, "then there is nothing wrong with the economy".
Here we have had 20% unemployment and I still say life is good! (see reasons posted above).
I think one of the best purposes of this site is to keep people motivated and cheer others on. I find the posts of personal experiences very inspiring at times.
Of course, not everyone is an expert. Outside of my "areas" I am not one either. That is where a little education comes into play.
I do not think that 80% of the posts are erroneous. Some however, are blatantly so and generally corrected by other posts.
Possibly this issue could be brought up in a more delicate manner?
I believe everyone has a right to their opinions, no -one should be wrong in his facts.
Ski's post (while making some valid points) was a call to battle.
Randall
[addsig]
Yep ya got it right A CALL TO BATTLE
Either spend the time to know the area or lose your money its your choice.
The Battle is not with me I am just pointing out the enemy STUPID- ITY
If folks want to to battle with me hey go and tilt against some windmills
Me I am just hanging at the beach
SKI
Here is an idea, instead of making a general statement that 80% of the posts here are wrong, why not provide feedback on some of the posts in question explaining your own educated viewpoints. I am sure it would be more appreciated if you would share specifics and perhaps enlighten some of the newbies rather then scare them off.
Cheers,
RM
Also I have noticed that a lot of my questions on this board will only result in 1/2 answers. Quite often with all the people on this forum not one seems to know the full answer. This still helps and I appreciate it but sometimes expect more.