SIPS Home Kits
I'm looking to put up a SIPS or Steel Home Kit as an owner-builder project. I've read the posts here on Panelized Homes and know the very basics. I want to do it as my own primary residence first so I can learn the ins/outs of things and then possibly do it for investment property to flip. A few questions:
1) Do SIPS Kits only cover the structure and not include the finishing such as drywall, electrical, plumbing, exterior finish, appliances, counters, etc?
2) Besides site prep, foundation, permits, what other major costs will I run into?
3) Do you have to disclose the home as a "SIPS" home when you sell? I know you would have to for "manufactured" homes.
4) Since the market and value is primarily run on comps, if you were to put up a SIPS home in an infill area where most of the homes are stick-built, how would you put a value on it?
I'll start off with these basic questions first and go on from there. I appreciate any replies, suggestions, opinions, etc? Thank you.
Leo,
My brokerage experience is with stick built, so I'm addressing some aspects of your questions 2, 3 and 4.
2. Don't know if you intended this question to relate to only construction matters, but here are some thoughts. If you're subdividing, then obviously, you're going to need a civil engr & surveyor, RE atty and others as appropriate (wetlands, environmental, etc). You may still need some engr/surveying services if you're talking about a single lot, and of course, title insurance. Testing for suitability of on-site utilities (and installation cost) or cost for accessing existing public water and sewer lines. Check the building code requirements in that municipality to make sure what you want to do complies. Obviously, check the current zoning.
3. Based on gut feeling, I would say that you should disclose. Part of your marketing anyway would involve pointing out the features and benefits of this type of construction v. stick built. But I think this would be a "material fact" that should be disclosed.
4. This is a great question. I don't know what adjustments appraisers would make in doing a sales comparison approach appraisal on a SIPS home. I would suggest your contacting a few residential appraisers to get a feel for this. To locate someone in your area, you can search here:
http://www.appraisalinstitute.org
Nancy
Nancy,
Appreciate the reply. I went ahead and ordered your Developing Land book so that I can get more info on the entire subject.
1) Have you yourself every considered SIPS construction for flipping? Just by getting some basic info, it seems as if the SIPS is just as good as stick-built, with a lot less cost and time involved. Have you heard of any cons to SIPS SFH construction?
2) RE Atty, Civil Engineer, Surveyor at the least. Would the engineer to the testing for ultilities feasibility on the site? The cost for the access to water, sewer, and electricity, I assume I would get from a GC?
I'll definitely check the building code and zoning for the area.
3) Reason why I asked this question is because I know for sure that if it's a manufactured home, disclosure is required for both the lender and buyer. With the lender, they may limit LTV on a particular home. I will ask and check.
In general, I don't believe too many people know too much about SIPS although it's been out there for awhile. If I was considering flipping the property for retail, they may link the SIPS to manufactured homes which has a negative connotation with the public. Hence bringing the value and attractiveness down for potential buyers. I'm looking at purely regarding profit margin after a sale.
4) I'll contact a few appraisers here locally.
5) I know this is a general question and may not fit into every new construction situation and area, but may I ask what kind of cost per sq ft are you paying for regular stick builts in your area? Middle-class homes (1600 -3000 sq ft) specifically?
Another general question, but what do you think is the best way to approach a GC for cost of an owner-builder SFH new construction? Being this is still a very new field for me and don't have any experience, not sure if they are going to take me seriously with questions like I would like to put up a SFH for myself, how much will it cost me?
Again, thanks for the replies.
Regards,
-Leo
Is there a basic but comprehensive Line Item Cost Breakdown Sheet I can find online for building a spec home?
I'm going to contact Indymac regarding what I can qualify for. Are there any other land/lot and construction-to-permanent financing sources that anyone would recommend?
Can anybody in California (specifically SF Bay Area) recommend a builder I can talk to regarding estimates and quotes for an owner-builder project?
Again, TIA for the replies.
I have contacted several companies, from Canada - Virginia, about putting up one on a lot I have sitting.
I have yet to have anyone return my calls.
Makes me wonder what the cost truly are/
From what I read on SIPS, these homes are more structurally sound.
I just spoke with the Building Inspection Dept. in my county and they advised that they treat it as an "alternative method" at building.
This requires having to submit techinical data about the product with an seal from a state licensed architect / engineer.
I was advised to make sure that the company provides this seal as part of their cost to keep the headaches down and more money in my pocket.
From what I read the SIPS is exterior and not interior.
My electrician did one of these homes in the mountains. He said it was different but was not a problem. Channels were provided for his wiring which made it easier.
Again, I am trying to find out myself what the true cost are.
NC
You may want to look at www.sipweb.com for information on building with SIPS. It's also got a very responsive forum for any questions you may have. Thermocore, which advertises their price on the site, seems to be a pretty strong company and to include the most for the price.
From a practical standpoint, a friend of mine up in Asheville just built his own house (really built - as in swinging a hammer, not signing a check) and used SIPS for part of the project. He had no prior experience using them, but said they were an absolute breeze to work with, even though the company he used did not perform very well.
If the profitability of your project is related to the construction time, there are a lot of benefits to SIP construction. Sure, the materials may cost more up front, but you can have the entire shell of the house complete using a crew of three people in just a few days, plus it will already be insulated and electrical conduit in exterior walls will decrease wiring costs. If you combine SIPS with other improved building methods, particularly precast foundations such as those by Superior Walls and perhaps manifold plumbing systems, then you have not only a hyper-efficient house (which becomes a better selling point each time people get $200 gas bills), but one that is assembled extraordinarily fast using a minimal number of subcontractors (note that if you use a commercial crew to do steel framing for interior walls, they will generally do the drywall as well).
NC Yank, you may know this already, but up in your neck of the woods, the good state of NC will give you a tax credit for building with SIPS (or other efficient techniques) based on the cost of SIPS versus traditional framing techniques.
Spencer
Quote:
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NC Yank, you may know this already, but up in your neck of the woods, the good state of NC will give you a tax credit for building with SIPS (or other efficient techniques) based on the cost of SIPS versus traditional framing techniques.
Spencer
I will check the numbers.....what was the problem your friend had with the company?
In regards to taxes, considering my "good state" likes to tax us to death, that is mightly nice of them.
In Mecklenburg county they tax you on the water that runs off your roof.............politicians, put them all on a boat and then sink it.
NC
Even if I could remember the name of the provider, I'd be reluctant to give a second-hand negative review. There may be more sides to the story than I know about.
Interesting to hear that you're getting taxed on impervious surfaces up there. While I can't speak to how they're using the money, I would assume that it has to do with watershed management with the goal of mitigating future flood damage. Right idea...if it's being implemented properly. Sounds like a good reason to start building green roofs like they do in Europe.
Spencer
Hey Dr,
This is probably isolated to a specific company, but it appears the negative comments that I have read about have to do with when orders were actually made and sent as well as the order in which the wall were loaded.
When I did panel construction up north, companies that had there walls packed according to their layout sequence saved us a tremendous amount of time in labor.
The tax issue has to do with politicians never having enough money to spend.
We the people have basically given them a pass on spending as much money as they want and on anything they want.
Flood management has nothing to do with their reasoning......its a matter of government charging what the people will allow them to charge......and since most people dont vote......they pretty much get a free pass on taxing us.....they can call it what ever fee or license they wish but its no more then a from of taxation.
My county is killing us with ridiculous fees and permits. The developer has to pay the cost for water and sewer (rightfully so) but then the city charges the builders for "future" water and sewer fees ($1500.00) plus "tap on fees" (weather you tap on or not....state law allow them to charge you for "availability" ($3,500.00) and then you have "impact fees" that can range from $1500 - $5000.00..............plus there are still zoning and building permit fees to pay.
Its nothing to write a check for $7000.00 to walk away with a few pieces of paper...........oh yeah, and a red and green locator flag......cant forget that, that cost $3,500.00.
At anyrate, Im still trying to get some of the SIP companies to call me back.
thanks for the info...
NC
I built SIPs homes. In general, the kits were like any other; you could get just the panels, or you could get the whole "shell" (with windows, doors, siding, roofing, etc.), or even turnkey. All depends on what you want. In general, however, most I've seen are either just the panels or just weathered-in, and you supply the other fun stuff (mechanicals, finishes).
I think you'd "want" to disclose it as a SIPs home, if at all possible, because of all the benefits.
For valuation purposes, it'd be the same I'd think.
Please let me know if you have other questions.....
Oh....and most manufactuerers supply technical information and engineering stamps. Tech information (for the inspector), is free, and the engineering stamp is $250 per project from my distributor.