What To Pay The Bird Dog Up Front Per Lead.
Just wondering what I need to pay the bird dog up front for each lead or do I have to do that?
I have read a little about what to pay them when there is a deal but I am not sure what to offer for the leads.
Any information would be helpful.
Thank youl.
I say zero..
If you establish a relationship, do some deals, and the person(s) prove to be very thorough, trust worthy, detail oriented, meaning the leads are white hot, then yeah pay up front if you want.
The bird dog doesnt bear any of the liability, any of the financial costs, the repair work, the holding costs etc, so why pay them up front?
I would say pay when you get the deal done, which really shouldnt be that far down the road from when the lead comes in, right?
Do what helps you sleep at night and brings you the best results, but I cant and wont pay up front, especially without proven results with the bird dog.
GL
Thank you very much for the fast response.
I am just concerned that I will have a hard time finding a bird dog to work for no money. Also I am concerned that the bird dog will be giving my leads to me and some one else that is paying per lead also.
If someone else wants to pay, I say let them. The last thing I want is to work with a bird dog who thinks they demand up front money. If a person is that demanding, they need to share in some of the risks too.
I agree that finding good connections is valuable and can be very lucrative, but I wouldnt put that on the table from the start, but if things go well, selectively do it as a bonus.
The bird dog needs to value you as much as you value them. Giving an up front figure puts them in the drivers seat (IMO) and you should be careful allowing that to happen.
Best of luck over there!
Thank you very much. Very valuable information.
I never pay my birddogs up front!
None of my investor friends pay their birddogs up front.
If a birddog bring me a deal and I close on it, I will give them a percentage of the equity at the closing OR I will give them a larger percentage of the profits, when I sell the property.
Hope This Helps,
Mrs. Meltzer
I am a little confused here...
I am a bird-dog.
As part of a team, I expect to be paid for my work, i.e. locating the property and whatever else I may contribute to help the investor obtain the property.
Payment comes after the work is done, not before..
An agreement/contract should spell out when the bird-dog gets paid and how much.
If I only point a property and do nothing else, I get a small amount..
The more work I do, the more I get paid..but after I do the work is done.
When do I expect to be paid? It varies with the investor.
I have one investor who pays when he get the downpayment.
I am a little sad to note that some investors do not think highly of the services of bird-dogs.
Maude,
You have been birddogging for how long? You are also are a member of this site and may have figured out that the only difference between you and the investor is the investor has the cojones to put the deal together.
You know just as well, as in everything else, there are good birddogs and there are bad birddogs. I personally would not pay a red cent until I close on a property. If I were to enter into an agreement to pay a birddog for each property he finds, I would be leaving myself open to alot of risk. The deal is not legit until the day after it records with the county. Thats when the banks pay, thats when I pay.
Please, do not take anything personally that is posted here. Last thing I want to do at this site is tip-toe around peoples sensitivities...
Why don't you put a deal together yourself? If you can find the property you can make it happen - REALLY. Finding it really is the hardest part. Then you decide if it is wise to pay a birddog before the deal is closed...
<IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif"> [ Edited by leecuad on Date 08/04/2003 ]
Many of my birddogs are newbies.
I train them and DO NOT CHARGE them for my time. I do not charge them thousands of dollars that the bootcamps or RE Gurus charge.
In return, they find me deals, and I PAY them for all of their time. If I make money, they make money.
So, they get free training and they get paid.
But if I paid them for every house that they pointed me to, wouldn't they just be able to pickup the local MLS and give me like 100 homes a day? I'd be out of business before I even started.
Mrs. Meltzer
A birddog is a person that finds (for example) Motivated sellers, Abandoned properties, someone selling/buying a home. Depends on the situation.
If Joe The Motivated Seller talks to Bobby the Birddog, then Bobby turns to Mike the Investor and Mike purchases the property, Bobby gets a finders fee for the Lead. Bobby and Mike both make money.
Verne
maryjanel,
to me, it depends on what the birddog gives you. if they give you a listing of addresses and maybe an owner's name with it, they don't deserve payment up front. however, if u asked them for certain criteria and they gave u a full title search on a property and have comps to show some sort of ARV, then YES, by all means, they should be paid for thier time. in that scenario, they're giving you enough paperwork to raise the possibility of you closing on this. whereas a list may give you 1 in 100 good deals, that kind of research could be a substantially higher chance. i do title work, so i can accomodate anyone with a nice bit of research in PA. it takes much more time, but it all comes out in the wash.
wallstreetcapper: hahaha, you are the funniest! i appreciate your point of view in nearly all your posts. you DO NOT waste money! perfect name for you.
Jackman,
Where in PA are you? I used to live outside Philly..great town, horrible roads..
I used to be a market maker in Conshy, so I have wasted some money here and there.. I also have wasted some money in real estate, but if I can help others not jump and spend money when they dont need to, that is where I try and help. I also dont like ganging up on nice/innocent people, so I kinda nudge in there too.
My views on bird dogs is that some people benefit from making the illusion that bird dogs can command large sums and control the arrangment, and that just isnt good business. Investors take so many more risks and expenses than a bird dog does, and if a BD wants the rewards of being an investor, then pony up and be one. I do think that having great people around you is invaluable, but I cant toss money here and there like some imply they do.
So on another subject, do you like the Eagles? I think this year will be a down year for them, some key losses in positions and the lack of upgrades by Mr Conservative Andy Reid will put them short again IMO.
I dont care if I make 10k or 1M, throwing money away is never a good idea.
My wife and I went down to the local town hall and asked for a list of tax liens. The tax collector there seemed unwilling to help, in our opinion.
She kept saying that information can be found in the local paper, but acted like she was breaking her back to make (3) copies of the listings she had there in her office.
She asked WHY we were looking for this information, and we told her that we were looking for the addresses of homeowners that are or are about to go into foreclosure.
We thanked her for the listing copies, but walked out thinking that we asked the wrong questions. Did we?
I'm trying to learn as much as possible about bird-dogging, but don't feel that I approached the tax collector the right way.
Already I have taken pictures of two different properties that I think would make GREAT rehab projects. I very much enjoy driving around looking at properties, and my wife and I like to try and find signs that a property is vacated or belongs to someone that wants out of the picture.
Thanks,
Tom
wallstreet: i understand completely, your feelings on BDs. i won't waste time on this topic, since it's not really the thread - but i can say this for myself, the only reason i'm birddoggin is because i don't have the money/credit to be an investor yet. i'd love to buy a couple $10K little properties and flip them to get started. i don't consider my service over-valuable, but i do take it seriously.
about the eagles, i'm not really a fan, but they are tight-pocketed and it will hurt them again (not signing Duce)! ugh!!
Jackman im a bit confused by what you said here.
"if they give you a listing of addresses and maybe an owner's name with it, they don't deserve payment up front. however, if u asked them for certain criteria and they gave u a full title search on a property and have comps to show some sort of ARV, then YES, by all means, they should be paid for thier time"
Don't the birddogs have to pay for the title searches then?
Sometime ago, I ran a very intensive organization in which the Real Estate Analysts were a very important member of the group.
Each Analyst (you call them Bird dogs)
Appeared in the office at around five oclock in the evening. We then handed out the NOD's to each of the five Analysts. Each Analyst had a designated area of the greater Los Angeles Area. We had it broken into five areas. The daily handout of NODs was about 5 to 10 each. They ran those NODs and at the same time looked for (Targets of Opportunity) The vacant neglected house. A house that was noticed, means a sign on the door. Perhaps a Red tag from the Building Dept. or the Health Dept. They also looked for Sale By Owner. All of these leads they explored and came back to the office the following late afternoon at Five Oclock, the time of the Analysts. We then went thru all of the accumulated information and then directed the Analysts to an action on each property. Make an Offer, Have the Office make an Offer. whatever. Offer to refinance, offer to buy, offer to list and on and on. Each of those Analysts went out once more and tried to close. If they could not, the next evening at the meeting a Broker would go to the property, or the office would call, or the appraiser would go out. Whatever.
A new Analyst usualy took about 15 days or so until they were at cause. I advanced to them expenses, gas money. whatever.
On all profits gained by their lead, they were entitled to 10% of the profit. The lead file was always open to them and they did a lot of double running with me or one of my assistant brokers. We had fun. Lots of lunches, dinners and general fun. We dropped a lot of $20's on bar men who would hand out our "Save the World Cards." Good lead source.
As time went on almost all of those Analysts, turned into Real Estate Sales or Mortgage Brokers a few Appraisers and even fewer turned into Court House Specialists, you know checking cases. Probates, Divorces, Bail Bonds etc. etc.
After awhile they were no longer running in the VW Beetles they now owned Porches and Merced, wore the gloves with no backs, hung out at good restaurants in Beverly Hills and emulated Gutchy Pochy Styles.
But we paid, and we paid on all closings in office. We gave them our time and our friendship I cannot think of one that did not go on to glory, and some in a very quiet non public way would have given the Donald of Trump a run for his money. Good men, splendid woman, and one the damndest crazy'st Rental Agent you ever met. this young lady somehow or other became a specialist in renting big isolated houses in the hills to Madams who service the film colony. These rents were about $5,000 to $8,000 a month and her 10% was nothing to sneeze at. She was good, and very happy as she did not have to wait for escrow closings. It was cash on signing of the lease. I finaly had to move her out into her own little office. Hard to get any work done with her clients coming into the office. Madams, now theres a group of interesting woman.
Do not put them down, I do not like the word Bird dog. When they worked for me they were an integral part of the company. We ran them like an intelligence network. Cause that dear friends is where I copied it from.
respectful but quaint. Lucius <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_cool.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_cool.gif"> [ Edited by Lufos on Date 01/15/2004 ]
newbirdie,
Yes they would, If they were doing a title search. sometimes a public records search is extremely helpful. By-The-Way, bird-dogs should pay for their own gas, paper, marketing, business cards, film etc too.
Bird-dogs are independant contractors, and as such are responsible for their own expenses, and setting their own schedules etc.
If it makes the difference between getting paid and getting paid well, it's a good expense to make. The more complete the information, the more it's worth.
So then as an independent contractor would it be prudent to send the investor a bill for early services rendered? Considering that a deal might not be made. I can't imagine they would wanna work with me again. I wouldn't mind working hard and even sticking my neck out for my investors,but your right I am responsible for my own expenses so thats why I say I don't really have the cash flow to do title searches for an investor that may or may not strike a deal. The reason I am birddoging is b/c I don't have funds to be an investor yet. So that would be a kinda like shooting myself in the foot, no?
I can understand when I have more cash flow, sometimes you take chances,and nothing is guaranteed. But for a beginner with no cash flow?
I would hope the county recorders office could provide me with the same information as a title search would. After all, are title searches tax deductible like gas, paper, marketing, business cards, film ,etc ?
I wouldn't expect a title search. however if you did research at the county recorder's office, that should be sufficient for me to decide if I'm interested.
I think there's some confusion here. I don't expect you to bring me every lead on every property you find. You and I would have sat down and you would be very clear as to what I'm looking for.
An example of this could be as follows;
Junkers
Price to me - less than Arv X .70 minus repairs.
Preferrably vacant.
Owner wants out.
Repairs not to exceed 20% or ARV.
Quick close desired.
No major title issues.
No tax liens
No City, County or Tax Liens
etc.
If that were the criteria I gave you and you brought me properties that didn't fall within those parameters, or at least very close, you're wasting both of our time.. You wouldn't be getting paid for leads, you get paid when I close on a property that I purchase that you provided a lead for. If I already had info on that property from another source, I'd tell you up front, and show you proof. If you've done all of the leg work, you deserve to get paid well. If you only bring me an address and a phone number, You haven't earned much. We would have agreed to a fee schedule before you brought me any leads to look at.
I appreciate the fact that you don't have any money at this point. I wouldn't require you to forsake all other employment opportunities to be my bird-dog either.
I'm still working at a job and Investing when I can. I wouldn't expect you to be able to do anything full time starting out.[ Edited by jeff12002 on Date 01/17/2004 ]
and just to fill in, since i do searches myself, it doesn't cost me anything to do searches in my county. so, i would be able to include that in my birddog work. of course, that was then!
You have to give them some compen-
sation or they will burn out. If they bring
me a picture of a boarded up or vacant house with a picture front and back with
an estimate of repair from my check off
sheet, then I will give them $10.00.
If they bring you 10-20 quality leads a week it is well worth it.
Another option as mentioned above is to
give them a percentage when you close the deal. Each situation is different. I am currently employing 2 college kids that need the money, so I pay them for
quality leads. I also give them access to
all my library and seminar material I have collected over the years.
I agree with Lufos, you need to train and compensate. Well worth it!
Jeff Adam
[ Edited by Jeffca on Date 01/17/2004 ][ Edited by Jeffca on Date 01/17/2004 ]
A birddog gets paid when I get paid. When they find me a deal and I close it...I happily pay them a fee. John "Cash" Locke has an excellent E-book on the subject right here on TCI.
I think every situation may vary. You have to do what works for you as mentioned
in the articles above.
Good Luck
[addsig]
Jackman--I have an investment team in NJ that is looking for something in PA to put our money into. Please get back to me if you could be of assistance.