I have been thinking about investing outside the U.S. Just got back from a trip and I saw lots of opportunities. Anyone been able to apply CREI outside of the U.S.? If so, what form and where?
i checked out a couple places to invest and found i was more scared of being robbed or stolen from than anything.
i looked into investing in pattaya city, thailand and i found that 3rd world countries are strong in every fashion except economy. there, i can own any home i want for dirt cheap - the USD to the Thailand Baht (THB) is ridiculous! but i could only own the property, not the land. also, i couldn't own more than 50% of the property with the other half being owned by not only a citizen but someone born there. just read the laws on land purchases before you commence.
in brazil (rio, to be exact), places are a dime a dozen and you can own a home but still not the land - so many foreigners buy condos there. you can own there and have a maintenance company upkeep rentals for you, etc ... but i wonder how many would try to take you under (being the "rich american" that you are - in thier eyes).
to me, it doesn't help my nerve that i'm 22hrs from thailand and 12 from rio - when all the planets align! geez! BUT, i do luv the ladies in both places. oops, shouldn't have said that ...
That's very interesting. I never would have thought that the land wasn't part of the deal. I looked at some vacant land in Chile and even talked to a builder there who wanted to sell me 5 hectres and put up a real nice house for about $45k. Not a mansion or anything, but a modest 3 bedroom or so. It was on an island and had a beautiful view. I saw a lot of residential properties in the small to midsize towns starting at about $15k, but they were very small, and if you have spent much time in the 3rd world, you pretty much know the kind I'm talking about. I guess at the time I wasn't thinking so much about them being investments, just playing with the idea of living there for a time. I did think a little about buying a BIG old house and turning it into a hostel. It was in an area where tourism was beginning to show a lot of promise. Haven't done anything yet, just thinking of different ideas... Z <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif"> [ Edited by Zach on Date 03/09/2004 ]
very cool idea too - hostel. i entertained the idea of living in brazil myself - but realized that until i can, i'd use it as my snowbird home (november to march) and rent it out other times. i like how you think man, we should get together and bounce ideas off of each other to see how we could pull these off for ourselves. we may be able to brainstorm up enough of an idea to move on them!
I own a 2-bedroom apartment (850 sq. feet) in downtown Moscow, and know at least a dozen other foreigners who own apartments in Moscow or homes outside the city. The whole idea of mortgages is still relatively new in Russia. Residential mortgages are offered by only a handful of organizations and tend to have requirements of 30% down, 13-20% interest rates and 5-10 year terms. There's no credit agency in Russia, so tracking and checking an individual's credit is next to impossible. In fact most organizations hold title until the mortgage is completely paid off. The only creative tool that's ever really used is an exchange of one apartment for another, and may include one side adding some cash to make the deal more interesting.
In exchange for all this, you get an apartment the value of which will increase at least 10% (and possibly as high as 50%) each year over the next 5, 10, or possibly even 20 years. Unless there's a coup, civil war, or some other such thing. Not much chance of it happening, but still something to be aware of.
[addsig]
This is a fun thread. I still am only dreaming of investing overseas, but I look forward to the days when I NEED to go to Costa Rica, Mexico, Spain, and Italy to attend to business!
Each country is going to have it's own quirks. I wouldn't buy anything anywhere outside of the US until you understand how RE in that country works, have an understanding of the political stability, and social and economic factors that will come into play.
In Mexico, for example, it's very tough to get investment loans at a fixed rate (based on the peso) and ammoratizations longer than about 10-15 years. Granted, there are some american companies that will lend dollars for overseas investments, but if the peso drops, you income may as well, leaving you with a relativly larger mortgage payment. Basic volatility.
Additionally in Mexico, foreigners can't own land within 100 miles (or something like that) of the beach. You can get around this by having a third party (bank, trustee, etc) act as the title holding entity, and you get all the benefits. Otherwise it ends up as a 50 year lease. I have heard of cases where the Mexican government decided that certain foreign assets now belonged to mexico rather than the investors. Last time I was in Mexico I was amazed at the prices of places (land, condos, etc) in areas where they expected tourism to be on the rise. It was expensive in american prices. However, if you can beat other people to the punch you can get some amazing deals. Land speculation is always risky though.
In Panama you can get fabulous places on the beach for not much money. However, if you don't have armed security guards there, it will get stripped. I'm not talking TV's and appliances....It will get stripped to the bone. People will take the windows, doors, wires, conduit, toilets, plumbing pipes, AC, electrical plates, etc. I doubt that Panama is the only place where this happens.
In another foreign location, everyone wants to live in the mountains of these Islands. The beach front property is where you find the farms and low-income housing, and the big houses are in the middle of the islands. I might just go buy me some cheap beach front property!
Fluctuating currencies, governments, political factors, economic factors, and social factors are just a few of the things that you should keep in mind. Buy low, sell high, and get a cash flow in the mean time, and hopefully you'll be ok. You may want to drop Lucious a line. I think he's got a place in England that he's owned for decades.
I love to travel. Each time I leave wishing that the US was a bit more like those places, and each time I return I wish that those places were a bit more like the US.
Notice that most of the messages have been discussing holiday situations?
If you want to buy a place that you can visit and use, great. If you are looking for an investment property where you expect income then you might be talking about something different.
This has proven to be an extremely interesting and educational thread. As far as whether we're discussing holidays or expatriatism, by all means, share any and all info. Thanks too, for the generous offers that have been made here. I'm very interested to learn more about this topic from all aspects and perspectives, even if I never know many of these places personally. I hope people will keep posting. Zach
My friend retired to Nicaragua. Bought a house, sails around in his boat.
Loves it.
Not dangerous, the Sandanistas are gone. Not as expen$ive as Costa Rica, Nicaragua still has a bad reputation from the Daniel Ortega days, so prices are much lower.
John,
Have you used any creative investing techniques in the UK? I also see a lot of posts on rates and mortgages. Anyone applied any creative techniques outside the US?
Just for kicks, you might check out www.internationalrealestatedirectory.com. It's fun to look at, but I think the real deals won't be found on any websites, and certainly not anywhere advertised in English. Z
I have been thinking about investing outside the U.S. Just got back from a trip and I saw lots of opportunities. Anyone been able to apply CREI outside of the U.S.? If so, what form and where?
i checked out a couple places to invest and found i was more scared of being robbed or stolen from than anything.
i looked into investing in pattaya city, thailand and i found that 3rd world countries are strong in every fashion except economy. there, i can own any home i want for dirt cheap - the USD to the Thailand Baht (THB) is ridiculous! but i could only own the property, not the land. also, i couldn't own more than 50% of the property with the other half being owned by not only a citizen but someone born there. just read the laws on land purchases before you commence.
in brazil (rio, to be exact), places are a dime a dozen and you can own a home but still not the land - so many foreigners buy condos there. you can own there and have a maintenance company upkeep rentals for you, etc ... but i wonder how many would try to take you under (being the "rich american" that you are - in thier eyes).
to me, it doesn't help my nerve that i'm 22hrs from thailand and 12 from rio - when all the planets align! geez! BUT, i do luv the ladies in both places. oops, shouldn't have said that ...
That's very interesting. I never would have thought that the land wasn't part of the deal. I looked at some vacant land in Chile and even talked to a builder there who wanted to sell me 5 hectres and put up a real nice house for about $45k. Not a mansion or anything, but a modest 3 bedroom or so. It was on an island and had a beautiful view. I saw a lot of residential properties in the small to midsize towns starting at about $15k, but they were very small, and if you have spent much time in the 3rd world, you pretty much know the kind I'm talking about. I guess at the time I wasn't thinking so much about them being investments, just playing with the idea of living there for a time. I did think a little about buying a BIG old house and turning it into a hostel. It was in an area where tourism was beginning to show a lot of promise. Haven't done anything yet, just thinking of different ideas... Z <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif"> [ Edited by Zach on Date 03/09/2004 ]
very cool idea too - hostel. i entertained the idea of living in brazil myself - but realized that until i can, i'd use it as my snowbird home (november to march) and rent it out other times. i like how you think man, we should get together and bounce ideas off of each other to see how we could pull these off for ourselves. we may be able to brainstorm up enough of an idea to move on them!
I own a 2-bedroom apartment (850 sq. feet) in downtown Moscow, and know at least a dozen other foreigners who own apartments in Moscow or homes outside the city. The whole idea of mortgages is still relatively new in Russia. Residential mortgages are offered by only a handful of organizations and tend to have requirements of 30% down, 13-20% interest rates and 5-10 year terms. There's no credit agency in Russia, so tracking and checking an individual's credit is next to impossible. In fact most organizations hold title until the mortgage is completely paid off. The only creative tool that's ever really used is an exchange of one apartment for another, and may include one side adding some cash to make the deal more interesting.
In exchange for all this, you get an apartment the value of which will increase at least 10% (and possibly as high as 50%) each year over the next 5, 10, or possibly even 20 years. Unless there's a coup, civil war, or some other such thing. Not much chance of it happening, but still something to be aware of.
[addsig]
This is a fun thread. I still am only dreaming of investing overseas, but I look forward to the days when I NEED to go to Costa Rica, Mexico, Spain, and Italy to attend to business!
Each country is going to have it's own quirks. I wouldn't buy anything anywhere outside of the US until you understand how RE in that country works, have an understanding of the political stability, and social and economic factors that will come into play.
In Mexico, for example, it's very tough to get investment loans at a fixed rate (based on the peso) and ammoratizations longer than about 10-15 years. Granted, there are some american companies that will lend dollars for overseas investments, but if the peso drops, you income may as well, leaving you with a relativly larger mortgage payment. Basic volatility.
Additionally in Mexico, foreigners can't own land within 100 miles (or something like that) of the beach. You can get around this by having a third party (bank, trustee, etc) act as the title holding entity, and you get all the benefits. Otherwise it ends up as a 50 year lease. I have heard of cases where the Mexican government decided that certain foreign assets now belonged to mexico rather than the investors. Last time I was in Mexico I was amazed at the prices of places (land, condos, etc) in areas where they expected tourism to be on the rise. It was expensive in american prices. However, if you can beat other people to the punch you can get some amazing deals. Land speculation is always risky though.
In Panama you can get fabulous places on the beach for not much money. However, if you don't have armed security guards there, it will get stripped. I'm not talking TV's and appliances....It will get stripped to the bone. People will take the windows, doors, wires, conduit, toilets, plumbing pipes, AC, electrical plates, etc. I doubt that Panama is the only place where this happens.
In another foreign location, everyone wants to live in the mountains of these Islands. The beach front property is where you find the farms and low-income housing, and the big houses are in the middle of the islands. I might just go buy me some cheap beach front property!
Fluctuating currencies, governments, political factors, economic factors, and social factors are just a few of the things that you should keep in mind. Buy low, sell high, and get a cash flow in the mean time, and hopefully you'll be ok. You may want to drop Lucious a line. I think he's got a place in England that he's owned for decades.
I love to travel. Each time I leave wishing that the US was a bit more like those places, and each time I return I wish that those places were a bit more like the US.
Buying outside the US...
Notice that most of the messages have been discussing holiday situations?
If you want to buy a place that you can visit and use, great. If you are looking for an investment property where you expect income then you might be talking about something different.
John
This has proven to be an extremely interesting and educational thread. As far as whether we're discussing holidays or expatriatism, by all means, share any and all info. Thanks too, for the generous offers that have been made here. I'm very interested to learn more about this topic from all aspects and perspectives, even if I never know many of these places personally. I hope people will keep posting. Zach
My friend retired to Nicaragua. Bought a house, sails around in his boat.
Loves it.
Not dangerous, the Sandanistas are gone. Not as expen$ive as Costa Rica, Nicaragua still has a bad reputation from the Daniel Ortega days, so prices are much lower.
John,
Have you used any creative investing techniques in the UK? I also see a lot of posts on rates and mortgages. Anyone applied any creative techniques outside the US?
Just for kicks, you might check out www.internationalrealestatedirectory.com. It's fun to look at, but I think the real deals won't be found on any websites, and certainly not anywhere advertised in English. Z