I'm Considering Squatting!
please give me your legal, moral and personal feelings/advice on this. i found a home that's been vacant for years and i like how it looks and it's size. i am tempted to just walk in and start remodeling it and i want to rent it out to a few families. hopefully it's set up like it appears from the outside - as 3 floors with each an individual apartment. i see three sets of meters, so assuming separate services. what do you all feel about my decision. could be risky and i realize i could lose lots of money - but if i could get a few good years out of renting it, i could make a serious killing on it!
i'm actually more than tempted, i have cheap labor help for what i can't do myself and all it'd cost is time and materials (i have a lot of that too, already).
thanks in advance for any of your input!
Sounds crooked, dude. I hope you're kidding.
Where's the building at? I might know the one you're talking about. I see a lot of abandonded properties in good condition all around my area.
This is doable but I would first try and locate owner. It's one thing to squat yourself quite another when you involve others paying you to squat
In a real estate seminar years ago, I heard of someone doing exactly what you are looking to do. A vacant house was found and rented out to tenants. I never did hear if there was an end to the story, but supposedly it was rented for several years.
On the other hand, if you find the owner you might be able to buy the property for $1.98 !
Jackman,
I have faith in your ability to run that owner down. I really would not set up a layoff squat. It works in England but only in the slummy part of London, I think it is called Brixton. But their laws are a little different.
Really make the try. Recorders office, tax records, neighbors, utility bills the works.
Check police station he may be incarcerated. Or dead, or hospitalized.
There is a lady out here who had a classic scam going she recorded John Doe Deeds on abandoned properties. She would search out the last deed transfer, get a copy of the deed, look for a mortgage, and then duplicate the signature on a new deed complete with faked notary. She had another little scam doing in which she recorded Deeds of Trust on propertys. She put herself on as Trustee. They would call her on sale or refinance and for a small fee she would issue a Deed of Reconvayance. Good for about $50 a shot. She got a little carried away and recorded on one of the buildings owned by Bank of America. The End. She did I think 18 months. Got a reduced sentence in excange for an autograph.
I do not advise it. Go find him. Lucius
I know what your talking about , and it is actually something that can legally take place. Check your state laws but it's called "adverse possession" and it basically says that the owner of a land that isn't going to use for a prolonged period actually loses their right to the property to someone who has taken up occupancy or possession.
It usually applies to things like driveways or sheds that extend onto an adjoining piece of propety. If that situation goes unchecked and undisputed then the property owner of the land loses that piece of their property to the other land owner who has constructed the driveway or shed.
Check it out with a very (VERY) knowledgeable RE lawyer in your area - it may be worth it. Or just get in touch with the owner and tell him it needs a ton of repairs and that you'll buy it for pennies on the dollar.
There's no better deal than one that doesn't have any competition.[ Edited by jfreud on Date 01/28/2004 ]
I don't think squatting can be considered a form of creative investing. Why take the risk?
freud,
Ref Adverse Possession. Once again with great care. There is an old Scam going back to the early beginnings of Calif. What you do is Move in and find the Tax Bill and bring it current and continue to pay on it for a period of time I would have to look it up but in my memory it is 7 years. But it is an invitation to a lawsuit as the heirs or whatever come alive and visit the property and away it goes. It has been done out here and normaly is part of a "Snatch" That is when you try to grab a property. An old trick is for the tenant to see that you are not paying the taxes and he volunteers verbaly to pay the taxes and then he pays them and receipts to himself. He will also do an improvement and employe a contractor to do it and receipt the work. Or allow a labor lien to be recorded and then pay it off. All of these little goodies are clouds.
The correct way is face on and Negotiate. Thats what this site is all about.
Cheers Lucius
Quote:
On 2004-01-28 20:01, HOLLERatG wrote:
Sounds crooked, dude. I hope you're kidding.
Where's the building at? I might know the one you're talking about. I see a lot of abandonded properties in good condition all around my area.
Sorry, dude, but I don't think your question was sincere. I think you're just trying to take this property for yourself.
The actual intent of the law is so that land owners cannot just abandon their properties, letting them go into disrepair, causing tremendous loss of value to their neighbors. There is nothing more detrimental to home values in an area than a vacant house or a house in serious disrepair.
It seems in this case that you would be doing a public service. If you wanted the house personally talk to a lawyer about it and if he gives the nod take possession and live there for basically nothing. Hope that the owner doesn't come back from wherever he is and try to reclaim it. Do some cosmetic repairs of the property and live for free. If he does come back you've lived for free (without fear of foreclosure) and if he doesn't (within a certain time period) it's yours.
Before you get carried away any further, keep in mind that every time you cross that property line you are technically trespassing. Besides that, let's imagine you move along with the plan, start the facelift work and one day out of the blue Mr. Tyron, fresh out of the state pen stops by just to find his place occupied... I hope he don't find you living in there because... boy, would this be a mess?
I like the way you think, Jackman, but I must also agree that this sounds like risky business. However, I have a half-baked variation/modification to your plan. Unfortunately, you you will end up spending a little money instead of making the killing you prefer, but the upside is that you would feel great about what you are doing. See, my idea is to put the utilities in "John Smith's" name, but have the bills sent to your PO box. Then you could allow all of the local bums and vagrants to hole up there as a shelter. Feeding would still be their problem, but at least they would be warm. You spend a few bucks on a gas bill - so what? I'll chip in if you want to do it. I'm serious. Work out the details and I'm in. Z
There is a proper way to do this, and there are risks involved. If you're interested in this, then by all means, learn what you can before you're committed. Do your due dilligence. Exhaust all avenues to locate the owner etc. Sometimes property is just abandoned, and the people that own it don't want to be found.
I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility just because it's not the normal way of doing things.
Jackman, I say learn what you can, and if you can do this legally, go for it!!
Good Luck,
Jeff
i tried my best to wait until i got a few responses for replying to them, so i don't chalk up like 20 posts, all just sayin "thanks" and "yeah". anyway ...
i appreciate what all of you said, even the dude who tried to steal my "snatch". hahaha. zach, you may not believe me, but there's one home i see that i wanted to do just that (warm it up for the homeless) in. except instead of turning on gas service (stickler's about that in philly, must have a deed or lease), i was going to buy 4 kerosene heaters for them - 2 on each floor. these winters are brutal and i would like to see less folx on the streets.
lucius, i understand completely and i will continue to TRY to find this dude but he's not around and not in philly. i have a decent arsenal to find folks at my disposal too. i even tried locating him nationally thru bankruptcy court. because you have faith in me, i will continue to exhaust options that i don't even have more of.
thank you everyone for excellent input. i'm reading up now and yes, i would be a hero to the neighbors. besides after i fixed it up, the owner would think his home was torn down and a new one rebuilt. <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_wink.gif"> i haven't had a good fight in 10 years ... bring him on! lol
sorry, i forgot to add the fact that i'm not a criminal and not up for criminal acts. all this is based on the idea that i don't find the owner. so after further investigation, if i find that it's illegal totally, then i'm done with it. if i find that there's a way to work it and/or it's only immoral (to someone else, not me) i could pursue. [ Edited by jackman on Date 01/29/2004 ]
actually i agree with you AND disagree with you. it's creative alright, in that there isn't anything conventional about it. it's not technically investing tho, b/c it didn't cost anything to acquire.
what's the risk if it's legal?
Quote:
On 2004-01-28 21:40, cygnus wrote:
I don't think squatting can be considered a form of creative investing. Why take the risk?
Jackman,If the taxes are up to date someone has to be paying them. In many states they only require a person to pay the taxes on a property for 2 years to gain possession. Consult your attorney to find out the local laws.
jackman, This is a fun post. I like it when new ideas are introduced to the "Conventional Creative Real Estate World", if that makes sense at all.
If there's money to be made and your ok risking some time and money, I'd see what you can do legally. Screen RE attorneys until you find one that seems to know what legal options you have, and then sit down with him and talk it over.
Is there a mortgage on the property? You may find out heaps by doing a title search. Have you talked to the neighbors? Have you looked up how the property has been transfered? Perhaps you can find out who sold it to the current owner.
As Lufos said....If you pay the taxes for 7 years you can become the default owner. From what I understand, this is generally for fencelines and things that are 2' off of where they technically should be. (i.e. incumbered boundry lines). 7 years is a long time for a property to go ignored. Big risk.
Many times properties become abandoned because people don't know what to do with them and don't have money to fix them, etc. If that's the case and the owner were to show up one day and see his property fixed up nice and rented, you can bet he wouldn't put up with it for long.
As has been said, I'd recommend:
1. Finding the owner and trying to have him give it to you for $1,000 cash or so.
2. Go through the legal channels to see if you can claim title to an abandoned property.
Keep us posted. Sounds Like an interseting deal.
Personally, if It were my vacant, free & Clear property
michael, the taxes haven't been paid for 4 years. i have an owner name, i just can't find the dude.
hibby, yes! u termed (Conventional Creative Real Estate World) what i was thinking - people are putting "creative" rei into a box, like there are only a few ways to acquire property in crei. haha.
it's free 'n clear - last mortgage was from '58. i just need an address for the guy, the tax office has billing going to a company of some sort - yet it's not an reo. i haven't yet tried the neighbors, as they're pretty far away - it's a corner lot with the next home abandoned too and then 2 free parking spaces before the yard of the next home - so it's about 100 feet from any other civilization on that particular block. it's also a first block, so no one on the other side. unique big cinderblock home.
and last thing: PA is 21 years, not 7. does that suck, or what?!
I'm no legal expert, but...
At least here in GA the Possession rule only applies when there is a discrepency or lack of clarity in legal docs (deed, plat, title, heirs, etc.). Then, and only then, can a caretaker stake a claim.
So just because you've been caring for a property/house does not give you automatic interest or claim against it.
[ Edited by mpldja on Date 01/29/2004 ][ Edited by mpldja on Date 01/29/2004 ]
Are any liens recorded against it? Wouldn't it be going up for Tax Sale after so many years of no tax payments.
Quote:
On 2004-01-28 21:32, jfreud wrote:
I know what your talking about , and it is actually something that can legally take place. Check your state laws but it's called "adverse possession" and it basically says that the owner of a land that isn't going to use for a prolonged period actually loses their right to the property to someone who has taken up occupancy or possession.
It usually applies to things like driveways or sheds that extend onto an adjoining piece of propety. If that situation goes unchecked and undisputed then the property owner of the land loses that piece of their property to the other land owner who has constructed the driveway or shed.
Check it out with a very (VERY) knowledgeable RE lawyer in your area - it may be worth it. Or just get in touch with the owner and tell him it needs a ton of repairs and that you'll buy it for pennies on the dollar.
There's no better deal than one that doesn't have any competition.
<font size=-1>[ Edited by jfreud on Date 01/28/2004 ]</font>
Adverse possession : You can squat in a Vancant property For three years and get the title after that pacific time, only If the squatter pay the taxes and the owner do not make claim during specifed time period.
I am very new to this. I have found a property but have not considered this tactic of aquiring the property. I am unsure of how to contact the owners. I have accessed court records which gives me their names as well as computer access to the assessment record, but this has the owners' address the same as the property (obviously no one lives there). Any suggestions?
I prefer standing! sorry, couldn't resist
Q
Just a thought - if you can't find the guy (or gal) - let it be! Just because you can live rent-free, or poach / squat on the property, or whatever, doesn't mean that you should. I can come up with a hundred likely scenarios where this property may be vacant for years, yet there is somebody who owns, and in some way needs, what is rightfully theirs. There are lots of deals to be made where you can do someone a favor and line your pockets with rightfully earned cash. It's easier to sleep that way. JMHO.
-e-
"the taxes haven't been paid for 4 years"
scr2001 already mentioned this, but I don't want it to get buried and unanswered so I'm going to ask also -- Why wouldn't this property be sold at the sheriff's delinquent tax sales?
i'm sure it's coming up for sale, but when i look at properties in philly here that are tax delinquent, they usually are more than 4 years behind. one i'm still waiting to close on, is 22k behind @5330/yr. so they're right over 4 years now. i have no clue how they go that long...
>>Just because you can live rent-free, or poach / squat on the property, or whatever, doesn't mean that you should.
i respect your opinion. i won't necessarily take it, but ..
>>I can come up with a hundred likely scenarios where this property may be vacant for years, yet there is somebody who owns, and in some way needs, what is rightfully theirs.
i probably could too, but if someone "needed" it, they should take care of it! at least cut the grass and board up the windows, not just let it deteriorate and lower everyone in that neighborhood's home value. that's pretty selfish of someone, isn't it?
thanks for the feedback!
ROLF...... this definately sounds illegal but a least you made me laff...
Ms. Nelson in NY