Rankings Vs. Points Per Month
I am still a bit confused after reading all the this my searches produced.
I get the idea that people are ranked by the number of posts they make. Seems fine and pretty clear.
What I do not get is the purpose of measuring activity in a month and the added complexity of weighting some activities. Articles, comments, property deals have more value then a posting. This might be just fine if there was some obvious value system in play.
I guess I get the extra points for the articles. Maybe even for posting deals but the point gets a little thin when I think about it.
Say someone has a high rank in a month, does anything happen other then they make it to the top of a list? I rarely go to the member area so I do not know many people care about these rankings.
I do like the rankings assigned for posting as it tells me about about the other person. If they have not posted much then I assume they are a little green in some fashion so need to be treated slightly differently while they 'find their way in the room'.
Any help would be appreciated. It is not a big issue but I am curious.
John
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active_re_investor,
I have not been on the board the longest, however I have been here 2 years. During this time I have averaged about 114 posts per month.
So I have seen the changes in the ranking system from where you started as a Newbie, then moved up in the rankings to Veteran Investor etc. Your title was based on the amount of posts you made whether you ever did a deal.
What happens here is a person with very little knowledge or some knowledge can try and look like they are a pro investor by how many posts they make, which is entirely untrue. So you cannot assume because they post alot they are knowledgable.
I have seen just about everything with how a member posts. There have been some who made 800 - 900 -1000 posts who I know for a fact have never done a deal. We had a poster not to long ago, that use to
post
like
this
to make his posts look larger, or the ones who posted an answer to many posts.
Good Advice or Nice Job, etc.
that's all they would post a few words to move up in the rankings.
Others feel they must answer posts to move up even if they are lacking in that particular subject matter, but are a pro in another area, sooner or later this will be a mistake as you cannot be all things to all people.
Here is my bottom line assessment, the pro investors on the board know who the other pro investors are by the way they post whether it be one post a month or 100+ posts a month. I feel the pro investor has a responsibility to make sure the new person is not fooled by someone who has a lot of posts yet are a novice themselves.
Nothing happens if you are the top poster of the month other than you spent a lot of time trying to get there. It doesn't mean the top poster has ever done a deal or will ever do a deal. Some members like the challenge to see their name in lights "Hey mom look at me no hands".
For those that have questions or those that have something to say to help, just post with this in mind, you can still be number one, however post as much as you like, just be considerate of those that have to read the posts.
John $Cash$ Locke
John,
Seems like you and I agree.
You learn who the pro's are by reputation and numerical scores are not really the same.
The monthly ranking is more or less useless other than as a form of entertainment (name in lights).
The value of the post is more important then the numbers.
People who have high numbers are more active and if they follow some basic etiquette they are likely to be more experienced.
Given what you have said, why even have the points systems (not the counter for posts)? It wants to encourage specific behavior but I do not see much benefit to anyone for such encouragement. I did read on moderator claim that it indicates people who are doing real deals but that is pretty weak as most people do not use TCI as the only place they buy and sell.
John
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There is a difference in what a persons forum rank is and how active they are.
On the Members Page, we wanted to show what members are actually helping out the community and not just posting forum posts.
First we take the first 1000 Forum Posters, and then evaluate them based on what they have contributed to the site within the past month. Then we calculate the score from that.
John,
I think Joel designed this site as if you were going to the library to read and learn, he has added features to help in that learning process and continues to add features that when used can be benefical to all members here at TCI.
Joel has made a large investment in creating this site, thus the paid membership, which allows him to add these features to help all of us. I have been to other sites and they do not offer what you will find here in the way of learning about our great industry.
As far as the ranking system it does not impress me heck, I have asked several times to have my avatar changed to the Taj Mahal instead of houses and my status shown as Grand Pooh Pah to no avail. I probably should talk with enormoustrousers to have it changed, he has an excellent sense of humor and can understand what I am getting at.
I did post on another board, which was number one, however it became so infested with negativism and hate posts that the top posters moved away, some of which are on this board today. Some never posted again and it is a great loss to the investing community.
Some would challenge the Moderators existance here and I will tell you they are an intregal part of TCI, this is done to see that this does not happen to this site. Other members must feel this way because a Moderator may receive many report this post emails in a day.
Can't say it is perfect, but overall a nice place to come to and learn.
John $Cash$ Locke[ Edited by JohnLocke on Date 06/07/2004 ]
Joel,
Thanks for the reply. The heart of my question goes to the part of your message quoted below.
From the scoring system used I would say that article and property listings are valued much more then anything else. That is why you weight them 50 and 51 respectively (doing this from memory as it is not easy to flip back to the member area when writing).
Is this largely correct? Independent of if people agree with the weightings I am just trying to confirm that there is some method to the madness. I figure if I start there I can then better understand some of the policies.
There is no hidden agenda or plot. I tend never to spend time on the listings or the articles section. But as the system is set up to favor those areas I am wondering why.
I am an engineer by trade and like to understand systems and things similar.
John
Quote:
On 2004-06-07 11:55, joel wrote:
On the Members Page, we wanted to show what members are actually helping out the community and not just posting forum posts.
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John,
You and I largely agree.
I started using BB's back in 1982 when I needed to do so for work. I am active on a few today and most do not have ranking systems similar to what TCI has.
As to the quality here @ TCI - I do like it here once I started to figure out the published rules and the somewhat unspoken rules. By unspoken I mean the norms that have developed. If you allow the readers to flag things then you are somewhat depending on a broad understanding which can drift. We proved this before when you and to explain what anoher moderator should have said vs. what they actually posted.
I have been doing my little bit re: support by shifting some purchases to the store here so that my membership is paid up.
John
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Yes,
We think people contributing to the website is much more valuable than people posting questions and answering other peoples questions.
[quote]
Is this largely correct? Independent of if people agree with the weightings I am just trying to confirm that there is some method to the madness. I figure if I start there I can then better understand some of the policies.
[quote]
Joel,
Thanks.
I entirely get the point as it relates to articles. What is the value to the web site of properties being posted? Traffic I can understand from property listings. Is that all there is to the model?
Granted the store will see more if people are 'walking by the store'.
John
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Joel,
Might I make a suggestion that might make the real experts stand out more clearly... What if to change belt colors, you actually had to list a new property with the site to move up a belt color? I'm not sure people look at the members link as much as they do at the belt level for "status". Here I am, I know a lot of this stuff in my head, but still haven't done a deal.
You're right, we do get to recognize the real experts here, but that may take a while for a newbie to the forum. Maybe you could collect lots of houses (in terms of the icons) next to your name for the number of posts you do, but the colors would only change per deal. Or maybe as you go higher up the color rankings, you might have to post 2 houses to change colors.
Just a thought.
Robert
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The problem with that is that rankings don't really have any correlation to actually doing deals. That is why we really stress contributing to the website with the articles and properties.
Also what about people who are retired like Cash and aren't as active as they used to?? They still have the knowledge.
The 'Most Active' and 'Forum Rank' are more of a fun feature and should not be taken so seriously as the knowledge of what a person has.
Heck, I thought I was Creative until I started reading what other TCI members are doing. I have done deals, but I will always be a student. There is always something to learn, even if it is from somebody who has a 'Newbie Rank'.
I think what we will do later on, like this months poll reflects, is to have a feature to show how helpful an individuals posts have been, and we will make peoples rank be related to that rather than how many you do.
Quote:
On 2004-06-12 15:48, robertt wrote:
Joel,
Might I make a suggestion that might make the real experts stand out more clearly... What if to change belt colors, you actually had to list a new property with the site to move up a belt color? I'm not sure people look at the members link as much as they do at the belt level for "status". Here I am, I know a lot of this stuff in my head, but still haven't done a deal.
You're right, we do get to recognize the real experts here, but that may take a while for a newbie to the forum. Maybe you could collect lots of houses (in terms of the icons) next to your name for the number of posts you do, but the colors would only change per deal. Or maybe as you go higher up the color rankings, you might have to post 2 houses to change colors.
Just a thought.
Robert
[quote]
I think what we will do later on, like this months poll reflects, is to have a feature to show how helpful an individuals posts have been, and we will make peoples rank be related to that rather than how many you do.
[quote]
I like that idea. Sounds good.
Thanks,
Robert
Joel,
I assume you are referring to this section of the latest newletter?
What feature is most important to you?
http://www.tcinvestor.com/Survey66.html
Where can I find this survey via the menu. Every time I type in the url or click on the link from the latest newsletter, I'm requested to login again.
Thanks,
Robert
Joel,
I really like the idea of basing the ranking on the quality and not just the quantity of a member's posts. Great idea!
Nancy
Quality is tough.
I think the most important point is to have a place that people want to join and contribute. If the scoring and ranking becomes too serious or if it is judged to be unfair then people will find a new place to gather.
Volume is good when you want to get opinions on odd topics. The more people the more likely someone will know something that helps.
I can see rating the articles or other things that are specific works. A discussion should largely be unranked with the contributors being acknowledged for showing up and posting. IMHO.
John
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John,
I am going along with you on this, anyone in my opinion that understands what a discussion board is for will understand.
OK, new folks who have been lurking waiting to make the first post with a question make sure it is "quality" because if it is deemed "quantity" then you are going to get slammed because there are going to be member judges out there waiting for you to post.
You are nervous enough before you make your first post, wondering, almost apologizing for the questions you ask. This I am sure if you receive a bad grade you may just think, I am in the wrong place. I came here for help not to be judged.
Let's get into the oil and water people for a moment the creative vs the conventional thinkers. How many times have I seen the conventional person jump into a creative post or vice versa. I will tell you how these two groups are going to judge each others posts.
So in all fairness if there is to be a judging system then whoever judges anothers post should have their nickname show up in the post and how they judged, to make sure it is not one sided for political reasons.
I do not post here to see how many houses are beside my name or to show how many posts I have made, I post to help not judge my fellow members. If I have something to say, even as shy as I am, I still manage to post what I feel to anyone on this board.
John $Cash$ Locke
active_re_investor,
I'm sure you have seen examples of posts in the Forums that have nothing to do with the questions posed by the original poster and/or subsequent posters on the topic. Or posts consisting of one, two or three words.
This kind of volume doesn't promote the purpose of the Forums--which is for people to engage in discussions about questions and topics relating to real estate.
Personally, I wish we didn't have post rankings at all (and have said so on several prior occasions) because I have seen some people obsess about who is #1, #2, etc. or accuse others of posting just to get their post rankings up. However, the post ranking system remains.
As with other features of this site, there will probably be "glitches" to be worked out. But I think it's worth trying.
Nancy
John,
You have been on the boards for low these many years, so I would say that you have an understanding of what their purpose is.
As far a posters posting out of context or one or two words, the Moderators responsibilty is to delete these. Rating them would serve no usefull purpose except to say it was "quantity". If it is deleted then the poster will get the message.
Having never been accused of posting to move up in the rankings I will leave that to someone who has been accused of it on the board and probably rightfully so.
John $Cash$ Locke
John,
As noted John I do have a long history with forums hence the reason I kicked off this question. I do find that some aspects of the ranking/rating provide little value IMHO. Nancy indicated something similar.
Overall I do find systems that provide a mechanism to recognize the 'regulars' has an increased value. Maybe a fuzzy amount of increased value. Similar to any club or meeting where the 'regulars' are known by the audience.
If people here do want to have a rating/ranking system then I offer the following as a source of ideas.
Take a look at the Motley Fool (no vested interest) sites they have a mix of ways to show value and contribution.
People can 'rec.' a post if they think it is worth recommending.
People who post a lot (over a long period of time) are noted.
People who have the highest recommend posts are noted. Top fifty recommended posts are grouped so people can watch the 50 hottest topics based on what the readers think is important.
The Fool sites are not about doing deals so there is no weighting for one type of post vs another like the property section here. It is more a pure forum so the objective is to stimulate discussions and recognize quality without there being a mechanism to ding people who are new or off topic. If someone is constantly off topic the community manages the issue or you can actually set a topic or person to ignore. There are topic based FAQ's and other 'articles' or similar.
Based on volume of activity and length of time that the Fool site has been used it might have some valuable lessons for the moderators/owners here. The range of discussions is broader so it is not clear that all things will apply in equal measure. You will also note that some forum areas have a different style so a range is possible (the joke areas have a high rec. count compared to the more specific investing topics is one example).
I am assuming the people are open to new or improved ideas when it comes to running a forum. If not just tell me and I can keep the suggestions to myself.
John
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Dear Friends in TCI land.
I post because my time in Real Estate has been a fun time. I think if you are going to be involved in something like this it should be fun.
My observation is that some of you become so serious that I think I let my Accountant out of the box again.
I also observe that if you are enjoying and having a fun time your judgement will be clearer and you will do a lot of things on automatic without serious consideration. You create flow in your actions and you accellerate your pace and achieve more.
I also worry that you all do not look back at the history and learn from it. So much to learn and all of it is applicable.
So I try to draw your attention and to make it readable I try to make it entertainment. I avoid a text book presentation as I am afraid some of you will hit your delete key and the stuff is lost.
I find myself fighting a battle with the established trades as I try to produce a new form of housing. Cheap and advanced with all the goodies. I feel that if it is not done the chasm between rich and the rest is widening. That is a danger. So I do my best.
I stick my nose in wherever I feel I have something in my long experience that is of value.
No do not give me any more pink houses, people are beginning to talk. Keep me off the list of heavy posters. My reward is the occasional response of someone stimulated to ask another question that is my reward. God I wish we had Spell Check. Come on Joel do something. Is there some program we could all buy?
I enjoy your responses and I learn as much if not more then the experiences I share with you all. damned smart aXX newbies!
Cheers I will try not to cry, Lucius
We think people contributing to the website is much more valuable than people posting questions and answering other peoples questions.
JOEL
How do "these" people contribute to the website?
Lori
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