Foam Insulation? Contractors/handymen Help
i purchased windows in the summer, the contract stated "all windows to have foam insulating wrap installed" what the heck does that mean.
it is now winter and the house is colder than normal. i complained and they send out a subcontractor. i made him pull the frame from one window to see for myself if any insulation was there and there was none
so, the guy that sold me the window says his guys says they installed insulation. and he also says that the windows comes insulated by the company even if the window comes insulated that would not cover the gap about 3" all around the windows all 11 of them.
any help will be great.
amynewbie
Contact him and advise that the windows were not installed properly. Give him a chance to rectify the problem in 30 days.
(send a certified letter as well)
If he fails to respond appropriately then take him to small claims court. If their is a licensing board agency in your state then file a complaint with them as well.
Also contact the BBB.
Be careful about using just any type of foam insulation,
some foams will expand causing more problems.
Personally I would use fiberglass insulation to remedy the problem.
If you do have to have it corrected then keep all receipts.
Also keep dates and times about who was contacted as well as taking pictures.
NC
thanks nc yank
i have contacted the bbb, and still no one wants to take responsability in fact i send in another letter today to the bbb with dates and a recap of my conversations with each individual at greenbay home improvement in long island. the bottom line with the guy who sold me the windows, stated that it cost money to remove the frames and check for the insulation. if done right the first time this wouldnt be happening. will never do business with greenbay again thats for sure.
and unfortuantely its in the contract that foam insulation is to be installed. the salesperson asked me is it in the contract that we are suppose to put foam?? unbelievable, so these guys go around removing windows then dont put any insulation to keep the cold weather out and get away with this stuff.
but i still want to know what "all windows to have foam insulation wrap installed" means which is exactly what it says on the contract.
amynewbie
As a siding and window contractor for 13 years I can only assume what they where refering to was either;
1) expanding spray foam (which by the way, should not be used on vinyl replacement windows due to accessive expansion causing possible binding issues) or;
2) polystyrene rigid foam insulation placed in any gaps.
If the windows where measured and installed properly there should not be 3" gaps anyway.
I only use fiberglass insulation for gaps around 1/2" at the most. I hope this was helpful.[ Edited by WeAllWin on Date 12/16/2004 ]
amynewbie
I have been in the residential renovation business for over 30 years. I have a few questions.
1. Were these windows installed in NY state?
2. What material were the windows made of? IE: wood
vinyl-aluminum?
3. What type of windows used to be in the house? and were they fully removed or only partially (as is usually the case when replacing older wooden double hung windows?
First. A 3" gap all around the new windows is absolutely absurd. NO manufacturer would recommend that much tolerance for their windows to be installed properly. It is a simple matter of allowing proper spacing between framework and new windows to accomodate proper expansion and contraction as well as allowances for framework that is either out of level or plumb. A decent rule of thumb would be more like 1/2-3/4" " openings that are larger than the new window sizes.
Second. When salespeople write contracts, many times, they use terminology that they believe will sound impressive to the buyer. I suspect the salesman meant they would install the foam panels (like the ones you can buy in a roll at the home centers) but dressed it up a bit in the contract because it sounds better (thereby increasing the likelyhood of inflating the price of the job).
In order to help you, these answers are relevant.
It would not take much time to inspect whether the insulation was installed or not. Depending on the types of old and new windows, it could be determined in a matter of just a few minutes.
However, judging from your post and the subsequate answers you have related, I suspect the job was done very shabbily and they have little interest in satisfying you. Do your necessary legal diligence and in the meantime, find another qualified, reputable contractor to inspect the work. Get them to state (in writing if possible) what was done wrong and what it will take to correct it along with the appropriate cost. The sizing issue will be the problem here, because they won't want to eat the windows. Depending on exactly how they actually installed the new windows will determine whether you should consider litigation on this thing. But from what you are describing, this job was botched from start to finish.
Good luck
thanks for the great replys.
i live in queens NY. the windows that were removed were old wooden windows with storm windows in front. the guys first removed the storm windows, then placed aluminum sheets around existing frames to cover the old frames. they removed the old windows and from the inside pushed in the windows. when the windows were pushed in you can see about 2"-3" all around the window. the vynil windows didnt fall through because the aluminum frames that cover the frames were in place. i assumed they were going to put foam insulation there. i didnt see any in the house i only saw the grey foam in the van. i was out side in the garage because it was raining.
dave/weallwin can you kindly tell me how is the new contractor supposed to check for the insulation. you stated dave it takes a few minutes. can you elaborate please. i feel so taken advantage of, and most of all i feel terrible i didnt protect my parents from these vultures. i will do as you asked guys, i feel alittle better since i am getting guidance from you . so dave let me ask you, so when i get the other contractor to inspect the job and get it in writting dont let them fix it is that what your requesting. the inspecting and written estimate isgoing to be used for the litigation correct.
in your professional opinion, can you give me a guesstimate on what removing the frames and installing insulation will cost for 11 windows??
oh, and most inportant should i refuse spray foam insulation because of the problem it causes as weallwin suggested??
thanks guys
amynewbie
amynewbie
Certainly sounds as if the new windows were sized wrong. The type of window you are describing as your old windows are the easiest to both measure and to retrofit the new ones. In order to check for the insulation you need to:
1. Remove whatever (stops) they installed on the interior of the room. Normally, this will be a small wooden trim piece nailed into the old frames that hold the new window in place. But judging from your description of 2-3" gaps, then they must have used something that is thicker than a conventional stop (which is about 1/2" thick). After removing the stops, you should be able to see the gaps around the windows and see if the insulation was installed.
2. Right, obtain the estimate in writing from another contractor, asking them to write a detailed description regarding the reasoning for the repair work.. This can be used to litigate if necessary. However, realize that the new estimate maybe in a price range that will cause you to ponder, whether it is effective to litigate this matter. The insulation you need for the repair work it not expensive at all. So the bulk of the repair work will be Labor. I can't speak for others, but to remove the stops-insulate and reinstall the stops and recaulk on 11 windows should take a good mechanic about 2-4 hours. You might want to consider threatening the original installation company with going to the local media with your problem. When the stops are removed take some pictures which depict the improper gaps around the new windows. Ask the original company how they will feel when these pictures are shown on the local news for all to see, at a time of year that many new customers will be considering new windows, and how that will affect their potential future business. This maybe enough to spur them to rectify this situation. And as far as the insulation goes, NEVER use the spray foam. It is too difficult to control, and you can end up with a situation where if it expands too far and pushes against the new jambs it can "bind" the new sashes from operating properly.
3. The cost of this work will range in price, but it would be most cost effective if you were to use a good handyman who knows his stuff to perform this task., since it is primarily labor intensive.
I'm sorry to hear that you have ended up with this type of situation. Replacement windows are one of the most common areas where consumers are often taken for a ride. Worst case scenario, hire the handyman to repair the work and always remember, when the work is being performed, supervise the project or have someone who is knowledgable enough be there to do it. This insures that the installers don't take shortcuts.
Dave
thank you dave, your wonderful
i will certainly follow your advise. happy holidays to you and your family.
i will keep you inform of the situation.
thank you again.
amynewbie