BUYING PROPERTIES AT 40% FMV OR LESS
I would be happy to show all of you some examples of properties that I purchased at 40% or less. I just want to make it clear I am not looking for business. This post is in response to Jeff who asked for examples. And to Omega1 who consistenly call me a liar and a board hustler.
You can verify the examples at the Allegheny county website in the real estate dept. Of course I don't have the properties in my name but you will see the following initials as the owner or previous owner:
L A W
Laurie Ann Waltz
Andros-LAW
2004
01/28/2004
6542 Odessa
Pgh, Pa 15206
Bought for $11,300.00 subject to appraisal $60,000.00. House almost completely, total expenses into house $4895.00. Selling for $60,000.00 and paying all closing cost for buyer. Net profit between $28,000.00 and $32,000.00. New buyer closing 03/26/2004.
2003
10/08/2003
3064,3066,3068 Chartiers
Pgh,Pa 15204
Bought off of Well Fargo for $10,600.00
The person that was foreclosed on by Wells Fargo Took out a loan for $46,900.00 in 1999 with them.
That speaks for itself. This is a 3 unit brick building. There are 2 rental units and I am in the process of putting my mortgage company in the other unit.
01/10/2003 and 01/17/2003 I bought two SFR's, I sold one and my account has all the info so it is sketchey so these figures my not be 100% accurate
Rodgers street
Pgh Pa 15207
I bought this in 01/2003 for around $36k It was sold for $69k. Beautiful part ofthe city but someonegot murdered in the house. Nothing need to be done except blood removal. So it was painted, carpeted, minor things, ect
01/7/2003
3103 Ashlyn
Pgh, Pa 15204.
This is my favorite property I own, One owner, Since it was built. An older woman died and owed the bank money. Must have been from home impovements
Everything is original in home, Hard wood floors, doors, staircase, ect.
I got it for $15,800.00
The appraisal $78,000.00, I have a mortgage on this for $62,400.00 at 4.375%. I rent this house out. The funniest thing about this is that I got the loan from Wells Fargo and bought the other house from them with some of the money. Both houses are within walking distance of each other.
2002
10/01/2002
5626 Wellsley
Pgh, Pa 15206
Paid $27,500.00
Sold it for $82,500
Actually got a $1,000.00 back after the closing from HUD.
This house needed about $12,000.00 in work. This was a partnership venture. I netted $23k on this deal. Plus got the guy his mortgage for $75,000.00 and made 5% plus $400.00 processing.
That wasn't a bad deal
Here is just a run of other ones you can look on the site at:
2001
100-102 Cherryhill
Pgh Pa 15210
Paid $11,500
Worth $105,000.00 in 2002 I own free and clear
1517 Celtic
Pgh, Pa 15210
Paid $23,500
Worth $52,000.00
Mortgage $41,600.00
This the best one
2001
02/02/2001
Paid $10,200
Worth $95,000.00
I own free and clear.
Those are just the ones that I personally owned or own. I wholesale at least 15-20 properties a month that never go into my name.
Please feel free to drive by any of the properties. I take great pride in everything I do. Some of the pictures may be outdated on the allegheny county website, so if you would like to see a picture I would be happy to e-mail you one.
I AM NOT INTERESTED IN SELLING ANY OF THESE PROPERTIES SO DO NOT OFFER.
Lori
[addsig]
Guess Id better subscribe to the Police Gazette !
Quote:
On 2004-02-19 14:24, MrInvestor wrote:
Guess Id better subscribe to the Police Gazette !
for what i don't understand your comment
[addsig]
It means becaues you "stole" them. (ment as a joke)
How do you do your prospecting? 20 deals to wholesale a month is alot.
[ Edited by WheelerDealer on Date 02/19/2004 ]
makes me want to move to PIttsburgh!!!!!!
Very different market where I am in Western MA.
Glad to see you succeeding, very inspiring. Dave
Oh you said we could look at a site that had these deals on them. what site is that?
Quote:
On 2004-02-19 14:40, WheelerDealer wrote:
It means becaues you "stole" them. (ment as a joke)
How do you do your prospecting? 20 deals to wholesale a month is alot.
<font size=-1>[ Edited by WheelerDealer on Date 02/19/2004 ]</font>
Wheeler
The county I live in discloses all previous owners and sales price of all properties on their website. www.allegheny.county.pa.us
I put an ad in a little paper that is called the pennysaver. It reads "buy a 2-5 bedroom home in your area for zero money down" call lori at-------------
I go to my local REI Meeting every month , I am a vendor, by now everyone knows me I advertise that I need more houses, They e-mail, fax, bring, do whatever they have to get me the addresses. I also go through the Pgh Post Gazette and look for rent to owns and ask if they would be willing to sell instead of rent. to own. I am constantly making contacts and I rarely leave my office. When I'm driving anywhere I leave 1/2 hour early just in case I see a FSBO sign in the yard. That is how I made it in this business. I like that saying on someone's signature. "Success only comes before work in the dictionary" That is how I was able to wholesale 13 properties last month. If you seen the news it was in single digits most of the most, but I got sold people on their dream of owning their own home.
That's how I do it. Hope this makes sence
Lori
[addsig]
Lori:
I did my homework and this is what I found out:
-3103 Ashlyn- You paid $42,500 in 1997
which was market value at the time,
not $15,800 like you claim! There was
also a co-buyer by the name of Andrew
Andros.
-1517 Celtic - You paid $44,800 on 3/29/02, not $23,500 like you claim!
-6542 Odessa-HUD owned property.
You say you bought for $11,200 subject
to appraisal from HUD? Hud does not
accept bids subject to appraisal!
-3064-68 Chartiers-Still owned by Wells
Fargo. Verified by First American Title
company. "Date Back" done on 2-19.
Laurie, according public record you did not purchase what you say you did nor for the price you said you did! According to public record, you own your primary residence that you purchased in 1997 for full market value of $42,500, not $15,800 like you insist. It was also purchased with a co-buyer. You own one
rental property that you purchased on
Celtic in 2002 for $44,800, not $23,500!
My question to you is simple. Can you give me an example of a property that you purchased at 40% of FMV? Not
houses that you dont own or that are
owned by HUD or banks!
Go ahead, post some more addresses,
I am anxiously waiting!
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/19/2004 ]
ouch!! i'd like to hear the explanation from lori!!!
See, what had happend was, when Y2K hit, the numbers got messed up and what you see is not really what was paid but what I say like I said. [ Edited by nebulousd on Date 02/19/2004 ]
I don't get it. What exactly is tinman hustling? Mortgage broker services? Is this an ego thing? And why would anyone give out so much personal information? This is weird, imho.
I'm sensing alot of negative vibes here...I can feel them reverberating over the net. Hehe. Seriously though, I cannot imagine why Lori would have any reason to fabricate this information. Can we all keep in mind that this site is to help everyone out and keep our personal feelings or egos out of it? Even if Lori isn't telling the truth, what difference does it make? Let's just all get along and try to help each other out.
Ryan J. Schnabel
Thank you Jeff!
My source confirms the same information, meaning ZERO credibility for the poster called:
TIN MAN AKA Lori, the mortgage broker assistant from Pittsburgh, PA.
-------------------------------------
maiapapaya,
Property information are public record. And here is the answer to your second question:
In the past month and a change Lori was extremely active posting indiscriminately over 200 time and often one sentences shallow comments just to bump her post number fast. Now, why would someone do that parallel to advertising her RE successes? I will live that to you to conclude and to her to apologize to everyone but if she could explain the inconsistencies, I would offer her a $1,000.00 for each property that she wholesaled after No 10 of this month. Vanity? I guess + something a bit worst...
Hope that clarifies the issue!
[ Edited by omega1 on Date 02/19/2004 ]
I have been watching this thread among others concerning TinMan AKA Lori.
Now I figure that Jeffrey and Omega are pretty smart fellas and they got tired of the 40% of FMV deals and wanted proof, they even went so far as to check it out.
You must remember I came on board here when there were 300 members and I have seen them come and seen them go. I have seen them post just to move up in the rankings or try to hustle some new person with there BS, so I have pretty much seen it all.
So new person before you jump on someone's bandwagon that boast's alot make sure that you don't get run over when you fall off.
Normally this post might have been deleted, but I thought that it might prove a lesson to be learned. Negative to a point yes, but let's look at the positive side, for any investor who has been in this great industry for awhile would question 20 deals a month at 40% of FMV.
So it is Lori's turn to answer the questions posed, if it gets personal then it will be deleted at this point it is answer my question.
John $Cash$ Locke
give her a chance to explain, or not explain her case. I would think you'd have to be a megalomaniac to initiate a post like she did if none if it were true.
It appears you have some explaining to do Lori. I, for one, don't have something invested in watching you crash and fall, but the floor is definitely yours at this point to step out and tell the truth
You've got our attention
Quote:
On 2004-02-19 17:25, JeffreyAdam wrote:
Lori:
I did my homework and this is what I found out:
-3103 Ashlyn- You paid $42,500 in 1997
which was market value at the time,
not $15,800 like you claim! There was
also a co-buyer by the name of Andrew
Andros.
I bought Ashlyn on 01/07/2003. The $42,500 was what the previous owner owed to the bank. It is rented out.
-1517 Celtic - You paid $44,800 on 3/29/02, not $23,500 like you claim!
I bought Celtic 08/16/2002 for $23,500, the other price was the forclosed price. It is rented out
-6542 Odessa-HUD owned property.
You say you bought for $11,200 subject
to appraisal from HUD? Hud does not
accept bids subject to appraisal!
I paid a cashiers check to them on 01/28/2003, It doesn't show up very quickly. Stop by the crews are working all weekend. I got a subject to appraisal done. I should realize some people only know certain terms. That means when the house is finished it will be worth $60,000.00 based on the current sales for that type of house. Sometimes you people you words that mean one thing in your part of the country and another here. I'll try to watch that, You seem to want to bash me for everyting you don't understand. Just ask me I'll be happy to clarify any statements. I have that under contract witha nice family with 4 children, they are so excited it is their first house
-3064-68 Chartiers-Still owned by Wells
Fargo. Verified by First American Title
company. "Date Back" done on 2-19.
I bought that on07/11/2003, I remember the date because it is my little brother's birthday. (this year he will be 33). I paid $25.5K (that's a three unit, 2 apartments and my office) Both apartments are rented, The girl that lives in Ashlyn house got her mother to rent one of them. Didn't even have to advertise.
Laurie, according public record you did not purchase what you say you did nor for the price you said you did! According to public record, you own your primary residence that you purchased in 1997 for full market value of $42,500, not $15,800 like you insist. It was also purchased with a co-buyer. You own one
rental property that you purchased on
Celtic in 2002 for $44,800, not $23,500!
I never told you my address so you tell me what you think it is. I have never bought any properties with a co- borrower, nor I have a taken out a loan to buy a house, Except in 1988.
My question to you is simple. Can you give me an example of a property that you purchased at 40% of FMV? Not
houses that you dont own or that are
owned by HUD or banks!
Jeff,
I guess I better tell my accountant that Section Eight was wrong for the 1099 they sent me for all of the above properties except odessa.
I wonder if I print out your post if the IRS will believe me, I know I'll tell them I don't have to pay taxes because I'm delusional, I'll have them PM you and you can tell them you have the proof I don't own them.
GEE thanks
What a great idea. I am going to my accountant this weekend. This should give him a good laugh
Go ahead, post some more addresses,
I am anxiously waiting!
Jeffrey Adam
Why don't you order a property report, I'll give you the fax and order form for the company that did all the properties for me. It's free, I make sure of it. Then you can look like a fool. Or are you afraid of the truth. I'll even fax you the one I just got on 02/17/2004 for Odessa tomorrow. You see I have to transfer the deed into my trust. Guess what the purchase price says $11,300.00.
TOOTLES
Lori
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."
<font size=-1>[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/19/2004 ]</font>
[addsig]
Here I was thinking that there is only one real estate guru for me in $John$ but seems like there is one more!!LOL...
Lori,
I normally dont confront anyone,but you asked for it by posting that you do so many deals at 40% FMV.when you post that on the board then you have to come up with facts to substantiate it.
Real Estate is a serious business as we all know.and there are a bunch of newbies out there who can be easily misguided with such talk of deals making a killing..Iam not saying you did not buy any at that steep discount.All Iam saying is that when you are under the radar for a statement which you made,its upto you to stand up and make the people know that you really did what you did
They have called your bluff,onus is on you too prove it wrong
Here is my reply, I gave the website which shows the transfers. All of those properties I bought within 2 years 2 months beside one. that was 3 years 1 month.
I'll fax over any proof to whoever ones it. And I'm a betting type of person, I bet anyone that my info is correct.
I will do that on all three of my children's lives.
If these people say they have the proof. Here is the question.
Only one of those houses were bought in my name. If they are telling the truth about knowing the sales price
WHAT name is on public record. If you cannot post that here then I will know and so will every one that you are just attacking me.
Lori
[addsig]
.
Why don't you order a property report, I'll give you the fax and order form for the company that did all the properties for me. It's free, I make sure of it. Then you can look like a fool. Or are you afraid of the truth. I'll even fax you the one I just got on 02/17/2004 for Odessa tomorrow. You see I have to transfer the deed into my trust. Guess what the purchase price says $11,300.00.
TOOTLES
Ms. Tinman:
I dont need to "order" a propert report. I
already have run a "property report" from the luxury of my own computer. You see
Lori, after being a valued client of First
American Title Company, they have given me access to run property reports from my own computer! I have checked
out all the properties you listed and nothing pans out. The prices you said
you paid for your properties does not
match up! I even called my title company
to do a "date-back". The houses are
owned by HUD or the bank with the
exception of two that you paid market value for. The Deed of Trust does not lie!
The information I provided came straight from public record, not from some website or tax assessors office that you
asked me to check! In the real-estate
business, accurate title information is the key, especially if you are buying at
trustee sale. My information is 100%
accurate!
Lori, I am still waiting for the addresses
of houses you have purchased at 40%
of market value. When you have them please let me know. If that were the case, I would be on the next plane to
Pittsburgh to take over that market!
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."
<font size=-1>[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/19/2004 ]</font>
[/quote]
[/quote]
[addsig]
Lori:
To answer your question:
LAW TRUST
The bottom line Lori is:
Deed Of Trust = Public Record
End of Story!
Good Night
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/19/2004 ]
Guys,
I am not sure where you are getting your information from but I just checked out a few of the addreses and I haven't seen even one that didn't check out.
One in particular, concerning the place on Celtic,
Municipal Code: 129 PITTSBURGH - 29TH WARD
Block Lot: 0060-J-00258-0000-00 Deed Book 11460
Property Location: 1517 CELTIC ST
PITTSBURGH , PA 15210 Deed Page 274
Owner Date Sale Recorded Sale Price
L.A.W. FAMILY REVOCABLE TRUST AGREEMENT (THE) 09/20/2002 $1
WALTZ LAURIE ANN 08/16/2002 $23,050
HOUSING & URBAN DEVELOPMENT 04/22/2002 $1
Looks like Lori is on target.
Jefferyadam,
Very interesting thread. Is the only reason you have the access to information you say you do is because it is priviliged?
How do you go about getting information on property 2000 miles away?
my mom, God rest her soul, often said "a person who constantly mistrusts others is generally not trusworthy themselves" ...food for thought...C.Walker
Oh and JohnLocke,
You are a wise man. Leaving this thread open was and is very educational. Thanx
Here's another one:
Municipal Code: 120 PITTSBURGH - 20TH WARD
Block Lot: 0042-P-00186-0000-00 Deed Book 11813
Property Location: 3068 CHARTIERS AVE
PITTSBURGH , PA 15205 Deed Page 212
Owner Date Sale Recorded Sale Price
ANDROS L.A.W. FAMILY REVOCABLE TRUST AGREEMENT 10/08/2003 $1
WELLS FARGO BANK MINNESOTA NA 06/13/2002 $4,265
ARMSTEAD TONY L 08/20/1999 $46,900
I see Omega1 can't produce his facts
thanks for your help
Lori
[addsig]
Quote:
On 2004-02-19 23:50, WheelerDealer wrote:
Jefferyadam,
Very interesting thread. Is the only reason you have the access to information you say you do is because it is priviliged?
How do you go about getting information on property 2000 miles away?
WheelerD, I have access to prop profiles, title transfers, deeds of trust thru my friendly title company rep. I give her all of my title work and she provides me with access to an online database that covers pretty much all of the US. I can find anything thru either an address, owner name, APN, etc.
Re: the rest of this thread, I still don't know why a person would want to post as often as tinman does, especially since most of her postings are not much more than one line comments about all of her success. If she is indeed as successful as she claims, then good for her. If she could bottle that into something useful for other people, she could sell it. But in my experience, someone who has to work so hard to convince others of her success usually is very insecure. My best advice would be that tinman suck in some of that bravado, and watch and learn from the veterans to see what acceptable forum behavior looks like. Just my 2 cents.[ Edited by maiapapaya on Date 02/20/2004 ]
[quote]
On 2004-02-19 23:43, JeffreyAdam wrote:
Lori:
To answer your question:
LAW TRUST
The bottom line Lori is:
Deed Of Trust = Public Record
End of Story!
Good Night
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."
<font size=-1>[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/19/2004 ]</font>
[/quote
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you know so much, Then you would know you can't buy a HUD property in PA unless it is in a person's name and must have a pre-approval letter from a bank, or a bank statement in that person's name with adequate funds.
So obviously you didn't do your homework.
Go try again
Just for the record American Title issues title insurance they do not do title searches. And I did not buy title insurance from them so they would not have me on record or my partners.
I'M WAITING!!!
And as far as I know You are innocent until proven guity, and heresay doesn't count. So it is up to you to PROVE that I'm wrong. I'm surprised John Locke would automatically think they actually did there homework.
Lori
Lori...John seems to be a fair man...I think he did you a favor by leaving the thread open...I believe we all know whats been happening...California appears to have the market cornered on skeptics... quite a change from when I grew up there...great thread though - enjoy you kicking derieres...C Walker
In my eye's the discussion is over.
Congrats on all of your success Lori!
Thomas ...great work...Lori... ditto congrats...C Walker
i think jeffrey is referring to www.realquest.com....through First American..very expensive database to subscribe to but can get info and copies of deeds and mortgages for most homes in the U.S. ..i subscribe to it and its totally awesome...
Thank you John,
As far as I am concern the tread will stay maximally factual. My only wish in this whole thing is for Lori to get the message that she'll get nowhere if she continue to push-posting ridiculous posts and for the younger TCI-ers to learn on, as you sad "
davehays,
You sad:
"I would think you'd have to be a megalomaniac to initiate a post like she did if none if it were true."
Megalomaniac describes someone who wants it big {or a lot; Greek: Megalo= English: BIG) but it my humble opinion, venting out some underlying frustration would be closes to the truth. Because this fells out of the subject, I will stop right where I am to respond to lori who we have the pleasure of having here tonight at 12:45 AM EST.
Lori,
You sad:
" real estate investor since 1988"
That's 16 years of investing in an aria that is continuously Buyer's Market. And you dear Lori have only 3 properties to show for?
I do not mean to be disrespectful but do reed your signature on the bottom of your every post and come back to tell us that it make sense. Thus you arrogantly continue to expect someone here to believe you that you are in fact flipping 18-20 deals a month? ... well, the only thing I can do for you is post your own words describing yourself and again let other draw their own conclusion:
"I wonder if I print out your post if the IRS will believe me, I know I'll tell them I don't have to pay taxes because I'm delusional, I'll have them PM you and you can tell them you have the proof I don't own them. "
You also sad: "I will do that on all three of my children's lives."
Lori, I apologize but it looks like we are not trained to fix ALL your problems. At list my tool box is not large enough but since the 'maiapapaya' showed some great thinking and logic so as far as I am concerned, she is welcome to throw her wrench or two.
As Jeff sad, "The Deed of Trust does not lie!" and we've done our diligence. My title history research through DataQuick shows the same info as Jeff's does and you are welcome to bring another coworker from your office or friend from the club to take your side, but it will not change the fact that you got nailed down SOLID.
And one last thing: John, do not let Lori get desperate and start throwing "inappropriate words" just to get this post deleted! In my again humble opinion it would be locked as a good example of what you've nicely described above! [ Edited by omega1 on Date 02/20/2004 ]
Omega...looks like you got nailed...can't we all just get along...as one other famous californian said...i think he is sitting in jail now...sweet dreams...C Walker
Lori, good work! Being born in Western PA, I know the work ethic of people from there. For what it's worth, you took on a few staunch critics and in my humble opinion, knocked 'em on their toukasses.
I'm not going to spend time researching your properties when I'm keeping myself fairly busy researching my own work - but stuff you say is ringing up as right to me (ie., first american is into title insurance, not title searches)!
One thing for everyone to keep in mind is that any information source can be wrong at times. it's all hand-typed, manually researched, etc .. and people make mistakes. even computers do, when fed human-entered data. so please, don't anyone swear on thier kids ...
Good to have you here cwa,
Can I get you to explain HOW did or could I get nailed?
The point of this discussion including constructive challenges and proofs is to make those that decide to stick, blend. If you read the tread form the beginning, you'll have a chance to see that I am not the one who buys and wholesales 18-20 properties a month. That's a single property almost every single working day that Lori AKA "hunter's story" alleges she buys. If your choice is to believe her, be my guess because I like to believe that we still live in a country that occasionally calls it's self FREE...
i must agree w jeffrey and omega my search showed the same data....data can be wrong once in a while but every property she listed is not corraborating with the public info...
jackman,
Thank you for stooping buy. We certainly appreciate a moment of your busy schedule and would like to have you confirm that being form the same aria and in the same business you do believe that you could tie up or buy and wholesale a property every working day?
I would also like to ask you if you really believe a person intention to be fair and right and after all truthful when saying " I care about small guy" just to snitch his house for 40% or less? If your wisdom directs you to believe in that crop, maybe you did share the same nuns; check this relative post of hers: "THE MORAL TO THE STORY" http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?mop=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=22462&forum=18
Denial, denial...
PS
And where is our Dear Lucius? As rarely great researcher and RE broker for the past 50 + years, he could add a splinter or two to this discussion just fine. LUFOS, it is your time to kick in the door. Com on in, it's show time once again!
[
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you know so much, Then you would know you can't buy a HUD property in PA unless it is in a person's name and must have a pre-approval letter from a bank, or a bank statement in that person's name with adequate funds.
So obviously you didn't do your homework.
Go try again
Just for the record American Title issues title insurance they do not do title searches. And I did not buy title insurance from them so they would not have me on record or my partners.
I'M WAITING!!!
Lori:
What did you do, call up your buddy "Thomas the Great" your friend in
Pittsburgh and and have him lie for you? Or is that your boyfriend Andrew
who is on title with you on the property
at 3103 Ashlyn that you purchased on
8/05/1997 from that little old lady named
Dorothy Eckerle for $42,500!
Also, the house on Celtic that you paid
too much for $44,800, that is in the Law
Trust! You must have grant deeded it to
your trust when you purchased it for
$44,800!
Lori, what is the purpose of a Trust?
To form a seperate entity to protect from
liability. That was a good try by member
"Thomasthegreat", however you would
not have all that information if your trust
was set-up correctly. It would only show
who the your "Trustee" is!
Nice try Lori. Maybe next time.
I will be ordering copies of the Deeds of
Trusts in the morning and posting my results. Yes, from First American Title
Company, one of the largest title companies. Also, just because you did
not buy title insurance from them does not mean they do not have access to
who is on title! They are a title company!
Are you serious? Really? Are you serious?
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
P.S.- John Locke, will you please show
everyone what your research shows and
end this thing. I have business to take
care of!
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."
[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/20/2004 ]
[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/20/2004 ][ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/20/2004 ]
omega1, i hope you didn't take my comment as a knock on you or jeff. i by no means will act like i know what i'm talking about in certain areas. but since you asked (and i am from near her), i absolutely could NOT imagine being able to service that many leads a month and truthfully would be happy to get more than 4 a month in ANY city. hahaha. but maybe i'm not weaved as tight into the community as she is. i'm not saying it's not possible - just to me, highly unlikely. i just don't like to pull people's cards on what they claim.
about caring about the small guy and getting 40% fmv. hahaha. i don't know what to say besides "point taken!"
looks like we have a stalker delegation from calif. that have nothing better to do. what's the problem, jealous because she's outdoing you...just be happy she is not in your neighborhood...then you might really have a problem...peace to all...C Walker
Ms. Tinman;
Nice try in having your buddy from your local Pittsburgh real estate club try and lie for you! I welcome all members to
run property profiles on the properties you are claiming to have bought for 40%
of market value! The truth lies in the public record not some website or friend of your that is posting inaccurate information to help you out.
I will be ordering copies of the deeds of trust in the morning!
You know Tinman. I am not a self-promoter. I come to this site to give advice to the newbies and steer them in the right direction. I have been doing
real-estate for almost 10 years and have
done over 300 deals. I can honestly tell
you that the most wholesale deals I have
ever done was 10 in one month and that
was back in 1995 when all listings were
converted from books to the MLS (computer). Guess what. Very few knew
how to use a computer. So if you went
"days back 1" and played the first day out
MLS game, you were very successful.
I know John Locke can relate. I dont know if you even understand what I am talking about. However, working over 100 hours a week and doing 10 deals in
one month was quite a feat. To do 18-20
and be a full-time mortgage broker, property manager, rehabber and mother
of 3? I dont think so. I rest my case!
Why you would give the advice you have
been giving out the past couple months
and self-proclaiming to purchase deals
that don't exist baffles me?
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."
[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/20/2004 ][ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/20/2004 ]
omega & jeffrey...why the personal attacks??? even if it seems far out in what someone claims does that give you all the right to denigrate and call them thieves...this has gone too far...you need to re-evaluate what you are doing...it is just not right...happy dreams, good night. C Walker
Mr. Walker:
If you are going to give bad advice and
self-proclaim to be something you are
not, you have to be held accountable.
I think the problem here is the members
of this forum are tired of Tinman's bad
advice and self-promoting board hustling. That is why she has been put
in jail in the past.
I am just here to give advice and help. I cannot sit back and let someone give
advice to new members that is off in
right field.
Jeffrey Adam
[addsig]
Gentlemen and you too Ladies,
Phili, the city of Brotherly Love, got conned once and bought a bell that cracked. They never stop talking about it.
I use First America whenever I have to search in other towns and states. They have never made a mistake for me. I think Lori is puffing, but then its a common failure. I know a lady out here who has made a fortune just er puffing.
You can if you really want to have them take each property and run the deeds backwards. Say last four changes. That pins it exact. First America will do that for knowledgeble persons who give them a good line of business. Jeff you get to go on line with their data base? Who do you know, are you related? You are way past me. All I can pull is tax info and last sale and of course the ownership.
I do not know exact who they use in Penn. but whoever it is you can depend it is first rate. After all if you are writing big time policies insuring titles. Your court house search team will be the best you can get.
I find it difficult that Lori can accomplish the volume of which she speaks. But then I knew a lady once who said she also set a record for multiple events. I was very disapointed but I guess just holding hands does not count.
I shall certainly check your posting tomorrow. and, dear lady if you are indeed accomplishing the amount of transactions you list. You have far exceeded the transaction level of some pretty good grinder shops that have operated in the past Their operations in the 60's and 70's extended from New York to Phili and all spots inbetween.
Damn Omega you really are active. Keep this up and you are going to have to go full international.
I await tomorrows posting. Lucius
jeffrey... that's well & good but there is no excuse for treating any human being with distain & do you also agree with name calling as in omega's post in THE MORAL IS thread...no one deserves that...two wrongs don't make a right...C Walker
Jeff you get to go on line with their data base? Who do you know, are you related?
Not related Lufos. I just dated the District Manager for California a few years back. They were in competition for my business. I left them and went to
Commonwealth. They dangled a sky
box at the pond in Anaheim and access
to their database as well as a 60% base
rate discount with no sub-escrow in exchange for my business. They also offerred to do binder to binder with no formal escrow for me. Now we are talking! I am sure "The Tinman" knows
what I am talking about.
Thanks for your reply Lufos, we were all
waiting.
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."
[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/20/2004 ]
[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/20/2004 ][ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/20/2004 ]
I am new to this site and have read this post from the beginning. I live in Pittsburgh, PA (real close to all Lori's claimed properties) - With that being said,
Lori,
If you would like to set up a meeting with me and show me your proof of all your claims. I would be happy to settle this back & forth she said / he said and post results.
Mr. Greyhair:
We have accurate title information from
over 3 different title companies. Thanks
anyways for you help!
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
[addsig]
The Battle of the Behemoths has been entertaining while spinning out several interesting nuggets of info.
I have to tell you though, as a newbie who is collecting $'s from his first deal tomorow, i am addicted to this site.
I have garnered so much info that has translated to confidence, that now translates into saying "i'm an RE investor" and feel like i'm not lying.
I have read so many posts, that i feel like i know some of you guys. Johnlocke(paternal genius), jeff(sound advice put succinctly), Omega(still incredulous about that kitten on the porch thing), lufos(man of wisdom who is in touch with his muse), and all the others, warrior, nancy, stockpro, etc. You guys are instrumental in helping us wannabe's.
And then there is Tinman. I really don't know if her story is for real or not. But i have not been offended by her. Most of her posts seem informative and helpful. By the number of posts it is assured one part of her story is true, she spends alot of time in her office.
Since she does not seem to want anything from anyone except to help, where is the harm if she has indeed exagerated things? Each post of help she gives, has to stand on its own merit. If it is wrong info, some of the gurus here will react and set things right. If she is as productive as she claims, a book should be written. As we all know, thats where the real money is. Ask kiyosaki.
So, i am one member that thinks, what does it matter? Maybe she really only does 3 deals a month. I don't think it matters if she exagerates, if in fact that is the case. As long as she continues to post good info, i will continue to appreciate her. My two cents.. [ Edited by rainforrester on Date 02/20/2004 ]
Mr. Adams,
You or whoever you are getting your info from is at least wrong about one of Lori''s properties.
1517 Celtic Street-
HUD date of sale recorded 4/22/02 - sale price $1
Waltz Laurie date of sale recorded 8/16/02 - sale price $23,050
The L.A.W. Family Revocable Trust Agreement date of sale recorded 9/20/02 - sale price $1
I said I was new to the site not to real estate.
I would like to find out if Lori is on her game or lame. Looks like she is 100% right on Celtic Street
To Lori,
My offer still stands.
Re: Police Gazette
I was only trying to make ( quasi ) joke after she had said that one of the properties she had purchased at a discount had been a murder scene.
My information came directly from Allegheny county public records. If it is wrong then so be it.
However, I take great exception to being called a liar. I do not even know Lori, much less are we friends (yet). You made a huge assumption when you made that connection and then directly leaped to assigning me with the status of LIAR.
Jeff your comments were rude and abrasive. And yes, I do expect an apology.
Very interesting posting going on around this subject here ....with very diabolical implications ! The only thing I am sure of so far is that someone is 100% right and someone is 100% wrong. Sparring seems pretty evenly matched . I feel that lp-1"s input should bear it out .......if not , then alot of us will be learning alot about the real estate laws and procedures. Either way a valuable lesson learned here ! Thanks guys .
Deinition of "toodles" A fancy way of saying goodbye and flipping someone off at the same time ?
WOW! I am impressed. I am just starting out and wonder how you got wind of these properties????
Fellow members of TCI,
Lori has invited me to call her, which I will do today.
I will post after we speak, my post will speak from the eyes of a moderator on what it looks like, only I will post from the facts, not he said she said.
I think everyone will learn something.
John $Cash$ Locke
John,
I think most everyone is interested to read what you find out.
This thread has raised a concern. That is the difference between First Americans data and the data from the actual county. Something just isn't right.
As time permits I am going to try to figure out why there appears to be discrepancies. In the mean time, I will continue to use the county records.
thomasgsweat,
I will be very objective on how a moderator would look at what has been going on.
I believe this is the only fair way to address this issue in what we look for when we evaluate a poster.
The moderators do speak with one another in the forum Joel set up for us. Some of you may become moderators in the future, so this will be more of a lesson in how we or I look at any post.
Admittedly some bad posts slip by us this is why at the bottom of everyones post you will see "Report This Post" so everyone is a moderator on this board. When someone clicks on this e-mails are sent to all the moderators in that particular forum. Then the decision is made.
John $Cash$ Locke
My real concern is the difference in the data. There have been very few facts presented in this thread however those that have been presented are conflicting. Now, unlike others, I don't think that anyone is lying about the research that they have done. I think that there is an issue on the quality of data. Where that issue lies I am not sure. All I am sure of is that I am pulling info from the County and that info apparently doesn't match with some info provided by a third party's.
So the question that I have is 'why the discrepancies'?
Anyone have any insight?
It looks like we have some people with too much time on their hands. Wouldn't it be more productive to spend our time on REI than worrying about someone elses business. I wish I could get some of my purchase prices doubled in the public records. I would definitely save some tax $. As a former high school coach of mine said "I don't have a problem in the world principal/headcoach tell me what to do,my wife tends to my money,and my neighbors tend to my business".
Quote:
On 2004-02-20 10:12, thomasgsweat wrote:
My real concern is the difference in the data. There have been very few facts presented in this thread however those that have been presented are conflicting. Now, unlike others, I don't think that anyone is lying about the research that they have done. I think that there is an issue on the quality of data. Where that issue lies I am not sure. All I am sure of is that I am pulling info from the County and that info apparently doesn't match with some info provided by a third party's.
So the question that I have is 'why the discrepancies'?
Anyone have any insight?
The descrepency lies between Pa and Ca. All of the properties that I bought between 12/2001 and 01/2004 were all bought from Hud the Atoorney -in-fact is Michelle Rodriguz (may be spelled wrong). She is in CA. I am in PA. I have the option to use who they use But I use a title insuance company in Pa. Once Michelle overnights the deed to my closing attorney, she is out of it. The file gets closed there, but their agent in Pa has to finish up the work. I do not use their agent, I use my own, which makes closing my file a little longer on their agent's part. They figure they don't need to hurry I am OK with what I received from my company. I was still calling about taxes on Cherryhill that were coming up on title, that they wanted me to pay for, when HUD owned the property. So Hud may not get a completely closed file back until the next year. So CA data would be incorrect.
TO MAKE THIS CLEAR I BOUGHT ALL OF THESE PROPERTIES BETWEEN THE TIME PERIOD OF 12/26/2001 AND 01/28/2004.
Lastly i bought and own or sold a total of EIGHT PROPERTIES between 12/2001 and 01/28/2004. I do have more that three properties. Jeff asked for recently bought properties in his original post.
_________________
real estate investor since 1988. I like to find creative solutions for my real estate headaches before they become problems. Most importantly, MOVEMENT DOES NOT EQUAL PRODUCTIVITY[ Edited by rajwarrior on Date 02/20/2004 ]
Quote:
On 2004-02-20 09:08, JeanScott wrote:
WOW! I am impressed. I am just starting out and wonder how you got wind of these properties???? <IMG SRC="images/forum/smilies/icon_eek.gif">
This response to Tinman's original post is why it's important for honest or at least tempered descriptions of success. There are all kinds of ways to "puff" up your success, but there are lots of newbies here who see your puffed up success as a real possibility for themselves.
I enjoy this site just because there are people here who will give you the straight poop on REI, based on their own knowledge and experience. It's important that for those of us who spend a lot of time here to get our questions answered. USEFUL information is helpful.
I tend to agree that the data from the County is the correct data. I am not disputing your purchase price. I am wondering about the data that other people are seeing from third parties. BTW...out of curiousity I pulled a property report from Sitex. It jives with the county info so at least I feel comfortable with my alternate provider of data. Here's a copy of the transfer portion of the report.
Maybe this will help get my name of off the liar list.
Subject Property Location
1517 CELTIC ST, PITTSBURGH, PA 15210-3520
County: ALLEGHENY PA Census Tract: 420032901.001011
Property Use: Single Family Residential Zoning:
Parcel Number: 60-J-258 Thomas Bros Pg-Grid:
Current Owner:
Owner Name: THE L A W FAMILY REVOCABLE TRUST, ANDROS, ANDREW Recording Date: 09/20/2002
Care Of Name:
Mailing Address:1517 CELTIC ST, PITTSBURGH, PA 15210-3520
County Tax & Assessment:
Assessment Year: 2003 Market Value Year: Tax Rate Code Area:
Assd Land Value: $12,300 Market Land Value: Tax Year:
Assd Improvement: $33,400 Market Improvment Value: Total Tax Amount:
Total Assessed Value: $45,700 Total Assessor Market Value: Deliquent Year:
Assessee Name: L A W FAMILY REVOCABLE TRUST AGREEMENT (THE) Tax Account ID:
Mailing Address: 5615 CAMELIA ST Homeowner's Exemption:
PITTSBURGH, PA 15201-2214 Tax Exemptions:
Assessment Legal Description
Block: 0060J
Abbreviated Description: OAKVIEW PLAN 72 LOT 25X95 CELTIC ST 2 STY ALUM HSE #1517
City/Muni/Twp: PITTSBURGH - 29TH WARD
Property Characteristics:
Lot Size: 2,375 SF Bedrooms: 3 Pool:
Building Area: 1,288 SF Baths: 2 Fireplace:
Year Built: 1918 Partial Baths: Type Const: Frame
Number of Buildings: Number of Rooms: 7 Ext Walls: Siding
Number of Units: Garage Type: None Heating: Central
Number of Stories: 2 Number of Cars: A/C: N
Style: Other Basement: Full Roof Cover: Shingle
Foundation: Elevator:
Subject Property Deed/Transfer History:
Prior Transfer
Recording Date: 09/20/2002 Sales Price: N/A
Document #: 092002188707 BK-PG 11460-274 Type of Sale: Non-Arms Length Transfer
Document Type: Intrafamily Transfer & Dissolution Partial Interest Xfr:
Multi APN Flag:
Buyer Names: THE L A W FAMILY REVOCABLE TRUST, ANDROS, ANDREW Buyer Vesting Revocable Trust
Care of Name:
Mailing Address:1517 CELTIC ST, PITTSBURGH, PA 15210-3520
Seller Name:WALTZ, LAURIE ANN ,
Mortgage Doc #: Loan Amount: N/A
Lender Name: Interest Rate:
Loan Type: 2nd Loan Amt: N/A
Type Financing:
Legal Description:
Subdivision: OAKVIEWMap Ref: MB25 PG69
City/Muni/Twp: PITTSBURGH
Prior Transfer
Recording Date: 08/16/2002 Sales Price: $23,050
Document #: 081602164360 BK-PG 11431-139 Type of Sale: Full Amount on Deed
Document Type: Deed Partial Interest Xfr:
Multi APN Flag:
Buyer Names: WALTZ, LAURIE ANN , Buyer Vesting
Care of Name:
Mailing Address:1517 CELTIC ST, PITTSBURGH, PA 15210-3520
Seller Name:HUD, ,
Mortgage Doc #: Loan Amount: N/A
Lender Name: Interest Rate:
Loan Type: 2nd Loan Amt: N/A
Type Financing:
Legal Description:
Subdivision: OAKVIEWMap Ref: MB25 PG69
City/Muni/Twp: PITTSBURGH
Prior Transfer
Recording Date: 04/22/2002 Sales Price: N/A
Document #: 042202080243 BK-PG 11325-512 Type of Sale: Transfer Tax on doc. indicated as EXEMPT
Document Type: Deed Partial Interest Xfr:
Multi APN Flag:
Buyer Names: HUD, , Buyer Vesting
Care of Name:
Mailing Address:100 E PENN SQ, PHILADELPHIA, PA 19107-3322
Seller Name:EMC MTG CORP, ,
Mortgage Doc #: Loan Amount: N/A
Lender Name: Interest Rate:
Loan Type: 2nd Loan Amt: N/A
Type Financing:
Legal Description:
Subdivision: OAKVIEWMap Ref: MB25 PG69
City/Muni/Twp: PITTSBURGH
Prior Transfer
Recording Date: 04/04/2002 Sales Price: $44,800
Document #: 040402067977 BK-PG 11311-341 Type of Sale: Full-Computed from Transfer Tax
Document Type: Coporation Deed Partial Interest Xfr:
Multi APN Flag:
Buyer Names: EMC MTG CORP, , Buyer Vesting
Care of Name:
Mailing Address:909 HIDDEN RDGSTE 200, IRVING, TX 75038-3817
Seller Name:CENDANT MTG CORP, ,
Mortgage Doc #: Loan Amount: N/A
Lender Name: Interest Rate:
Loan Type: 2nd Loan Amt: N/A
Type Financing:
Legal Description:
Subdivision: OAKVIEWMap Ref: MB25 PG69
City/Muni/Twp: PITTSBURGH
Prior Transfer
Recording Date: 01/24/2002 Sales Price: $847
Document #: 012402016017 BK-PG 11253-033 Type of Sale: Full Amount on Deed
Document Type: Sheriff's Deed Partial Interest Xfr:
Multi APN Flag:
Buyer Names: CENDANT MTG CORP, PHH MTG SERVICES, Buyer Vesting
Care of Name:
Mailing Address:6000 ATRIUM WAY, MOUNT LAUREL, NJ 08054-3918
Seller Name:KEHREN JR, PAUL A KEHREN, BARBARA M
Mortgage Doc #: Loan Amount: N/A
Lender Name: Interest Rate:
Loan Type: 2nd Loan Amt: N/A
Type Financing:
Legal Description:
Subdivision: OAKVIEWMap Ref: MB25 PG69
City/Muni/Twp: PITTSBURGH
Prior Transfer
Recording Date: 02/02/1998 Sales Price: $40,500
Document #: 020298013492 BK-PG 10126-399 Type of Sale: Full Amount on Deed
Document Type: Warranty Deed Partial Interest Xfr:
Multi APN Flag:
Buyer Names: KEHREN JR, PAUL A KEHREN, BARBARA M Buyer Vesting
Care of Name:
Mailing Address:1517 CELTIC ST, PITTSBURGH, PA 15210-3520
Seller Name:CHUDEREWICZ, DANIEL T CHUDEREWICZ, REBECCA S
Mortgage Doc #: Loan Amount: N/A
Lender Name: Interest Rate:
Loan Type: 2nd Loan Amt: N/A
Type Financing:
Legal Description:
Subdivision: OAKVIEW PLANMap Ref: MB25 PG69
City/Muni/Twp: PITTSBURGH
Well I'm anxiously awaiting the results of JohnLocke's phone call.
I was able to talk to her for a few minutes on the phone just now though, and she sounds legit to me.
No matter what your intensions are, you can't be posting.
"I have purchased XX amount of properties for less than XX on TCI."
Tinman, We are glad you have purchased these properties. But like Cash has said. This really looks like Board Hustling to me.
On the other hand, we need to find out whether there is some data discripency
between American Data and the local court house.
cwal,
I read your last and before last post this morning and had a healthy laugh about Lori outdoing us "Californians"! As far as I am concern anyone can claim whatever he/she likes but the title record got the last word. As far as being lucky that she is not in our neighborhood keep in mind that around here she couldn't buy a better mountain bike if she turned out and sold her most expensive property.
In regards to your comment that we do make personal attacks, I'll dismiss that as nonsense since the one who been insulting our intelligence for now month and a half is Tinman AKA Lori and you are either here to ignore all of that an blatantly defend her for the reason only known to you ( and probably her) or you understand NON of what is being sad.
And to make this even better, why don't I pay her to come and stay in LA first month free? I could also arrange for her to have all the tools she need to start her "dynamite game" and if she proves that she does what she says, I double what she makes, in contrary she'll have to pay her own bills. Sounds fair?
[ Edited by rajwarrior on Date 02/20/2004 ]
Joel and fellow TCI members,
I just spoke with Lori and I will post what I have gleaned from our conversation and how maybe it will conclude this thread.
But, right now I am going out to lunch, with some folks visiting from CN, so stay tuned.
John $Cash$ Locke
thomasgsweat,
"Discrepancy" disccusion in this moment would account for a mere attempt to deflect the truth:
Out of your several posts it became apparent that you are an intelligent man. Accordingly, I do wish to congratulate you on bringing up the subject of data inconsistencies but I still value it as a skillful try to deflect the fact that Tinman AKA Lori has been hustling this board for quiet sometime in one or the other form or shape, posting numerous wag posts (which were deleted because was merely half a sentence comments) designed to self serve her posting position.
In addition to that, board is not the place for one to advertise again in any form or shape, either through the appearance of a story or blatantly direct; - and Lori has done it both way.
To put http://www.the.on "i", NO ONE on this board could concur that is possible for one to do 20 wholesale deal in one month so unless she can prove that she is a superman or super women (f you prefer me to be precise) we will sincerely doubt that she could be trusted. To support that, please remember that my offer to pay $1,000 per EACH deal she can prove she did this month over the tenth deal, got NO RESPONSE so I hope we all got the message that she couldn't do that.
Dear sir, you are welcome to put the biggest blame for the going argument on ME because I was the most insistent that she stop posting shallow and indiscriminately irresponsible posts that dominated her posting carrier for majority of her 40 days history on this board now.
Finally:
1) If you believe that there is discrepancies, why don't you start a new tread? it could be a good idea if it in fact shows that someone is interested to comment on such distant possibility.
2) If you believe that the posting democracy and once ignorance should overshadow everyone's interest in continuing quality of the flow of posts, then you have to take responsibility for such opinion because I could not agree to support that.
Realquest data on Celtic:
Property Detail Report
For Property Located At
1517 CELTIC ST, PITTSBURGH PA 15210-3520 C026
Owner Information:
Owner Name: LAW TRUST
Mailing Address: 1517 CELTIC ST, PITTSBURGH PA 15210-3520 C026
Phone Number: Vesting Codes: / / RT
Location Information:
Legal Description: OAKVIEW PLAN 72 LOT 25X95 CELTIC ST IMP-DESC: 2 STY ALUM HSE #1517
County: ALLEGHENY, PA APN: 0060-J-00258
Census Tract/Block: 2901.00 / 1 Alternate APN:
Township-Range-Sect: Subdivision: OAKVIEW
Legal Book/Page: Map Reference: 0060-J /
Legal Lot: 72 Tract #:
Legal Block: 060 School District: 53
Market Area: Munic/Township: PITTSBURGH WARD 29
Owner Transfer Information:
Recording/Sale Date: 09/20/2002 09/04/2002 Document Number: 11460-274
Sale Price: Deed Type: DEED (REG)
Last Market Sale Information:
Recording/Sale Date: 04/04/2002 03/29/2002 1st Mtg Amount/Type: /
Sale Price: $44,800 1st Mtg Int. Rate/Type: /
Sale Type: 2nd Mtg Amoun/Type: /
Document Number: 11311-341 2nd Mtg Int. Rate/Type: /
Deed Type: CORPORATION GRANT DEED Price Per SqFt:
Transfer Doc Number: Multi/Split Sale:
New Construction:
Title Company: ATTORNEY ONLY
Lender:
Seller Name: CENDANT MORTGAGE CORP
Prior Sale Information:
Prior Rec/Sale Date: 02/02/1998 02/02/1998 Prior Lender: PHH MTG SVCS
Prior Sale Price: $40,500 Prior 1st Mtg Amt/Type: $40,889 / FHA
Prior Doc Number: 10126-399 Prior 1st Mtg Rate/Type: /
Prior Deed Type: WARRANTY DEED
Property Characteristics:
Gross Area: Parking Type: Construct Type: LOG
Living Area: 1,288 Garage Area: Heat Type: CENTRAL
Tot Adj Area: Garage Capacity: Exterior wall: FRAME
Above Grade: Parking Spaces: Porch Type:
Total Rooms: 7 Basement Area: Patio Type:
Bedrooms 3 Finish Bsmnt Area: Pool:
Bath(F/H): 2 / Basement Type: FULL Air Conditioning:
Year Built / Eff: 1918 / Roof Type: Style: OLD
Fireplace: Foundation: Quality: AVERAGE
# of Stories: 2.00 Roof Material: SHINGLE Condition: AVERAGE
Other Improvements:
Site Information:
Zoning: Acres: 0.05 County Use: SINGLE FAMILY
Flood Zone: X Lot Area: 2,375 State Use: RESIDENTIAL
Flood Panel: 4200630363E Lot Width/Depth: 25 x Res/Comm Units: /
Flood Panel Date: 10/04/1995 Site Influence: Sewer Type:
Land Use: SFR Water Type:
Tax Information:
Assessed Value: $45,700 Assessed Year: 2003 Property Tax: $1,344.03
Land Value: $12,300 Improve %: 073% Tax Area: 129
Improvement Value: $33,400 Tax Exemption: Tax Year: 2003
Total Taxable Value: $45,700
Transaction History Report
For Property Located At
1517 CELTIC ST, PITTSBURGH PA 15210-3520 C026
TRANSACTION HISTORY
History Record #: 1 Sale Price:
Sale Recording Date: 09/20/2002 Sale Price Type:
Sale Date: 09/04/2002 Multi/Split Sale:
Recording Document No: 11460-274 Other Document No:
Document Type: DEED (REG)
Title Company:
Grantor: WALTZ LAURIE A
Grantee: LAW TRUST
History Record #: 2
Mortgage Recording Date: 09/09/2002 Mortgage Loan Type: CNV
Mortgage Document No: 23273-498 Mortgage Rate Type: FIXED
Lender: FLAGSTAR BK FSB Mortgage Term: 30 YEARS
Loan Amount: $41,600 Mortgage Rate:
History Record #: 3 Sale Price: $23,050
Sale Recording Date: 08/16/2002 Sale Price Type:
Sale Date: 08/08/2002 Multi/Split Sale:
Recording Document No: 11431-139 Other Document No:
Document Type: DEED (REG)
Title Company: SETTLEMENT SOLUTIONS GRP
Grantor: HUD-HOUSING OF URBAN DEVELOPMENT
Grantee: WALTZ LAURIE A
History Record #: 4 Sale Price:
Sale Recording Date: 04/22/2002 Sale Price Type:
Sale Date: 04/11/2002 Multi/Split Sale:
Recording Document No: 11325-512 Other Document No:
Document Type: CORPORATION GRANT DEED
Title Company: ATTORNEY ONLY
Grantor: EMC MORTGAGE CORP
Grantee: HUD-HOUSING OF URBAN DEVELOPMENT
History Record #: 5 Sale Price: $44,800
Sale Recording Date: 04/04/2002 Sale Price Type:
Sale Date: 03/29/2002 Multi/Split Sale:
Recording Document No: 11311-341 Other Document No:
Document Type: CORPORATION GRANT DEED
Title Company: ATTORNEY ONLY
Grantor: CENDANT MORTGAGE CORP
Grantee: EMC MORTGAGE CORP
History Record #: 6 Sale Price: $847
Sale Recording Date: 01/24/2002 Sale Price Type:
Sale Date: 01/03/2001 Multi/Split Sale:
Recording Document No: 11253-33 Other Document No:
Document Type: SHERIFF'S DEED
Title Company: ATTORNEY ONLY
Grantor: SHERIFF OF ALLEGHENY COUNTY
Grantee: CENDANT MORTGAGE CORP
Legal & Vesting Report
For Property Located At
1517 CELTIC ST, PITTSBURGH PA 15210-3520 C026
LEGAL
In the County of Allegheny, State of Pennsylvania
Assessed Owner: LAW TRUST
REVOCABLE TRUST
Legal Description: A PARCEL OF LAND LOCATED IN THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA, COUNTY OF ALLEGHENY, WITH A SITUS ADDRESS OF 1517 CELTIC ST, PITTSBURGH PA 15210-3520 C026 CURRENTLY OWNED BY LAW TRUST HAVING A TAX ASSESSOR NUMBER OF 0060-J-00258 AND BEING THE SAME PROPERTY MORE FULLY DESCRIBED AS OAKVIEW PLAN 72 LOT 25X95 CELTIC ST IMP-DESC: 2 STY ALUM HSE #1517 AND DESCRIBED IN DOCUMENT NUMBER 11460-274 DATED 09/04/2002 AND RECORDED 09/20/2002.
Subdivision: OAKVIEW Legal Block/Bldg: 060
Legal Book/Page: Legal Lot/Unit: 72
Assessor's Parcel Number: 0060-J-00258
PROPERTY ADDRESS MAILING ADDRESS
1517 CELTIC ST 1517 CELTIC ST
PITTSBURGH,PA 15210
PITTSBURGH PA 15210-3520 C026
TAX INFORMATION
Tax Year: 2003 Property Tax: $1,344.03
Assessed Year: 2003 Total Value: $45,700
Tax Rate Area: 129 Land Value: $12,300
Delinquent Tax Year: Improvement Value: $33,400
Exemption: % Improved: 073%
TRANSACTION HISTORY
History Record #: 1 Sale Price:
Sale Recording Date: 09/20/2002 Sale Price Type:
Sale Date: 09/04/2002 Multi/Split Sale:
Recording Document No: 11460-274 Other Document No:
Document Type: DEED (REG)
Title Company:
Grantor: WALTZ LAURIE A
Grantee: LAW TRUST
History Record #: 2
Mortgage Recording Date: 09/09/2002 Mortgage Loan Type: CNV
Mortgage Document No: 23273-498 Mortgage Rate Type: FIXED
Lender: FLAGSTAR BK FSB Mortgage Term: 30 YEARS
Loan Amount: $41,600 Mortgage Rate:
History Record #: 3 Sale Price: $23,050
Sale Recording Date: 08/16/2002 Sale Price Type:
Sale Date: 08/08/2002 Multi/Split Sale:
Recording Document No: 11431-139 Other Document No:
Document Type: DEED (REG)
Title Company: SETTLEMENT SOLUTIONS GRP
Grantor: HUD-HOUSING OF URBAN DEVELOPMENT
Grantee: WALTZ LAURIE A
History Record #: 4 Sale Price:
Sale Recording Date: 04/22/2002 Sale Price Type:
Sale Date: 04/11/2002 Multi/Split Sale:
Recording Document No: 11325-512 Other Document No:
Document Type: CORPORATION GRANT DEED
Title Company: ATTORNEY ONLY
Grantor: EMC MORTGAGE CORP
Grantee: HUD-HOUSING OF URBAN DEVELOPMENT
History Record #: 5 Sale Price: $44,800
Sale Recording Date: 04/04/2002 Sale Price Type:
Sale Date: 03/29/2002 Multi/Split Sale:
Recording Document No: 11311-341 Other Document No:
Document Type: CORPORATION GRANT DEED
Title Company: ATTORNEY ONLY
Grantor: CENDANT MORTGAGE CORP
Grantee: EMC MORTGAGE CORP
History Record #: 6 Sale Price: $847
Sale Recording Date: 01/24/2002 Sale Price Type:
Sale Date: 01/03/2001 Multi/Split Sale:
Recording Document No: 11253-33 Other Document No:
Document Type: SHERIFF'S DEED
Title Company: ATTORNEY ONLY
Grantor: SHERIFF OF ALLEGHENY COUNTY
Grantee: CENDANT MORTGAGE CORP
Quote:
On 2004-02-20 11:49, joel wrote:
No matter what your intensions are, you can't be posting.
"I have purchased XX amount of properties for less than XX on TCI."
Tinman, We are glad you have purchased these properties. But like Cash has said. This really looks like Board Hustling to me.
On the other hand, we need to find out whether there is some data discripency
between American Data and the local court house.
Joel i am confused, people post their success' all the time. what makes this "board hustling"?
[addsig]
Quote:
On 2004-02-20 12:46, WheelerDealer wrote:
Joel i am confused, people post their success' all the time. what makes this "board hustling"?
She wrote her title in all CAPS. This is a big clue that she wanted to draw attention to herself, in addition later on in this thread that she wants people to call her and email her.
That right there, are two Forum rules being broken.
Johnci,
Can you give us a summary of what all that stuff translates to?
In the words of the great Rodney King. A model citizen, father, community leader, and role model. " Can't we all just get along?!"
Omega,
The reason the discrepancy issue is contained in this thread is because this is the thread where I was named a liar and accused of intentionally posting inaccurate data.
I have stepped up in defense no one other than myself. Unless of course you consider that any research which disagrees with yours is a defense for another person. It's not. It is simply a presentation of information as I found it. Found at the County level not from a third party. It was then also found through a third party.
Deflecting a topic? Not I. I am now simply responding to accusations made against me. Accusations that appear to be based on bad information.
As far as board hustling goes, I couldn't care less. The enforcement of that rule is a task that the moderators have assumed.
Can a person can do 20 deals in a month? Sure, it can be done. Can it be done consistently? I don't think so, but I have been wrong before and will again.
[ Edited by thomasgsweat on Date 02/20/2004 ]
Ladies and Gentlemen. I did some fact
finding this morning and this is what I found out. I talked with Fran Orris who works at the Office Of Property Assessments in Alleghemy County.
This is what I found out.
-The property on Celtic was not purchased for $$23,050 like Tinman
suggest. She filed an appeal on the
assessed value which was $48,000
which was based on her original purchase price. She had a hearing
last year and won the appeal. Therefore
they lowered that assessed value of
the property and the price on their website reflects what the assessed value is. They cannot show a property
value of $48,000 and a tax value of $23,050 or the citizens in Alleghemy
County would start a riot!
To reitterate. Tinman did not acquire any
properties for 40% of FMV! What she
did was have her property taxes lowered
by going thru the appeal process. Then
claim a purchase price based off of what
shows on the County Of alleghemy's
website which is incorrect! Nice try Tinman.
**** Sorry, Jeff, no phone #'s please. I doubt that Ms. Orris would want 50-75 people calling her today anyway.**** RAJ
Let this be a lesson for everyone. Next
time you are at the kitchen table of someone who is in foreclosure and you
are about to give them cash for keys, dont believe them when they say they only owe a certain amount on the property or there are no liens. Make sure
you check title and I would recommend
buying title insurance. Also, don't depend on someone's website for accurate title either! Get adequate
title information and I recommend buying a title policy!
Ms. Tinman. You pm'd me and said you
would give me your houses if I proved you wrong, which I have. I don't want your
houses, just your resignation from this
forum. I would think Joel would give you
a lifetime ban anyways for lying to all of
us.
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."[ Edited by rajwarrior on Date 02/20/2004 ]
Joel,
So it is not the " bought xx property 's for xx money that is the problem as stated before?
Tinman,
With deals like these you ought to have a net worth in the upward north 7 figures.
Since this thread got so personal and the only thing that really counts is how much is left over at the end of the day. So why dont we just post a standard P&L and a balance sheet. That ought to every body in there place and show the newbies the real possibilitys.
[addsig]
JefferyAdam,
A little off topic but your research raises a question.
Why would the tax office drop there tax value by that much? Clearly based on your research the chain of title supports the tax vaue. Secondly wouldnt an investor be shooting themselves in the foot to get such a low appraisal for resale?
Look at the transaction history which was posted previously. You will see the purchase for $20,050 and then a sale to LAW Trust along with a new mortgage.
The appeal of an assessed value does not change the purchase price of a property.
darn it Locke$$ where are you? i need to hear your results immediately. i've now been sucked into the abyss that is this thread. worse than my addiction for the apprentice (but that's another topic altogether), i need to hear your results.
jeff, once again, i thought you were off but you came back shining with a pittsburgh phone number! wow dude! hats off.
joel: sorry for the pointless post, please feel free to remove 1 point from my postings to reflect this is just a comment.
I think I am a fairly good judge of human character. I have noticed over the year traits of truly successful people. Those who are really successful wish to share their success or give something back to others and generally do not “charge” for every bit of advice given..
I call this the success quotient " giving = receiving"
Lori is as tight fisted with useful advice as my Scotch father in law is with a nickel! If she was making all the deals she claims then I would expect to see a detailed outlay of what she did & how she did it so that a new person on the board could be inspired, copy her successful patterns, and enjoy success on their own.
Having read many of the 200 posts made by Tinman I found most to be one and two liners, “sound blips” that help no one and advance her in the rankings. Such a self serving attitude is rare in the “truly successful”.
I have had some contact with Jeffrey Adam and Omega and have found them to be helpful, courteous, and willing to share.
I would not measure my own success against anyone else’s but I would say that “having been given much I too must give”.
In all things in life we lift ourselves best when we lift others……..
[quote]
On 2004-02-20 13:50, thomasgsweat wrote:
Look at the transaction history which was posted previously. You will see the purchase for $20,050 and then a sale to LAW Trust along with a new mortgage.
The appeal of an assessed value does not change the purchase price of a property.
Thomas:
You keep referring to the transaction history from a county website? Why dont
you check from a reputable title company! You are a real-estate investor, call your title company!
I realize that the appeal of an
assessed value does not change the purchase price of a property. I am going off what they told me this morning when I called. And also title information derived from 3 different sources.
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/20/2004 ]
This sounds like another East Coast - West Coast battle to me. I wouldn't be suprised if we heard from Tupac and Biggie on this thread!!
jackman, I'm addicted too!!
No, the transaction history posted by me from Sitex.
And another transaction history posted by someone else from Realquest.
Look at them
Oh and BTW....I am still awaiting that apology.
[ Edited by thomasgsweat on Date 02/20/2004 ]
If First American Title information is incorrect for some reason, I will take the hit on that. However, the whole point of
this forum is the fact that 18-20 wholesale deals a month at 40% of market value is not feasable!
The advice that she has given the last couple months does not make any sense. Her self-proclamations do not
either. We will find out the real truth.
Jeffrey Adam
[addsig]
OK,
That's fine. And I have not defended that position at all, in regards to the number of purchases.
I posted what my sources show to be factual data and you started yelling the 'L' word.
BTW....I just spoke with Matt at the assessor's office. Fran was not available. He confirmed that the assessed value and the market value can be changed however the actual transaction information would not.
Thomas:
I agree with you 100%. I am going off
of data I have from First American Title.
My whole point once again is I find it very hard to believe someone can wholesale 18-20 properies a month on a consistent basis. That is all. If my data
is incorrect, I will take the hit. Can't we
all just get along!
Jeffrey Adam
[addsig]
Fellow members, of the TCI Board,
Here is the opening line to the advertisement:
BUYING PROPERTIES AT 40% OF FMV OR LESS
Rule number 9 of the policies of this board:
YELLING TITLES AND TOPICS WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS!! (it looks like you’re yelling or advertising.)
The opening line of this topic is in all caps and would tend one to believe that by looking further a poster would be able to do this them selves. Lori has been in the TCI jail in the past for board hustling with the e-mail me or PM me in her posts. So she has a credibility gap to overcome with any of her posts.
During my phone conversation with Lori I advised her that it wasn't about her. It is about helping posters with their questions. She has a tendency to fall into the I did this and I did that syndrome, which exhumes her post when trying to help someone. This has brought on the credibility issue by other posters.
I will not going to full detail with our conversation, but basically Lori is looking for recognition from her peers. This is not atypical of a person who works many hours to be successful and from a single woman’s standpoint with three children to support.
I told her that her screen name, Tin Man is in the industry a person who sells aluminum siding and she has a home improvement company at looking at her profile. She replied that a person in her office told her the same thing.
She told me she was thinking of the Tin Man from Wizard of Oz. But as someone pointed out, the Tin Man had no heart at least until the Wizard gave him a certificate showing that he did have one.
By all rights and according to the rules of this board, her post was an advertisement and tantamount to board hustling. Was this done on purpose, or by someone just looking for recognition? We can continue on with does she or does she not purchase 20 houses a month at 40% of fair market value or can we hand her a certificate showing that she does have a heart?
Now that she has been advised at least from my standpoint, how she wishes to post from now on, will really tell the true story.
John $Cash$ Locke
PS: This is what we call a flaming thread on discussion boards; this one was allowed to continue only because I thought it could turn into a lesson for a new person.
John $Cash$ Locke
Fellow TCI-ers,
The situation was always clear and if she got the hart she'll apologize to all or for now on, she should be ignored.
For anyone with some basic intelligence, the true point was well taken even several days ago before this marathon post ever occurred. The women is thee fraud and what all further proofs only show is that she is in fact even cooler fraud, ready to lie persistently until she'll get thrown away.
So talking about "throwing away", if she and her club friends do not APOLOGIZE and promise to stop posting ridiculous posts I am considering a nice letter being sent to Pennsylvania Attorney general for review of her predatory mortgage landing practice and advantage taking purchasing of the real estate.
I admire John for showing the great flexibility but the one has to come from both sides.
Please check her other post located at:
Ooops, there we go, yet another Lori AKA Tinman post got deleted. In my opinion, that one about MORAL went hand in hand LESON 2 with this 60% off fmv, one.
And you know what, she is is continuing to post elsewhere while her boys are here defending the post. What a strange scenario we have experianced today.
[ Edited by omega1 on Date 02/20/2004 ]
Did anyone notice is was girl scout cookie season. How many boxes have you bought so far? Those things are so damn addictive.
So, after all this, it turned out to be a verdict of wheather or not there has been an infraction of the TCI rules ??
I thought is an issue of correctness of information due to the discrepencies of information!
If one is bragging surely we could see through that and still see that real deals are being made and that there is hope.
But lying is another story, of which we have yet to settle.
thomasgswea,
You go to give to take. before you do you can't expect anything that remotely sounds as apology.
-------- Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"However, the whole point of this forum is the fact that 18-20 wholesale deals a month at 40% of market value is not feasable! The advice that she has given the last couple months does not make any sense. Her self-proclamations do not
either. We will find out the real truth."
"
-------- Thomas --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"That's fine. And I have not defended that position at all, in regards to the number of purchases."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To help you come clean, you are advised to come up with a clear position on the above stated situation! And if you still need help to decide the course you'll take, check Stockpro99's post above! [ Edited by omega1 on Date 02/20/2004 ]
WheelerDealer,
I agree with you. To me, the primary issue was (and is) credibility.
I still think Thin Mints are the best. But I've found different strokes, for different folks. The Carmel De Lites are good too though.
Omega,
I did state a position several posts ago. It was one of the last last statements in one of my posts.
"Can a person can do 20 deals in a month? Sure, it can be done. Can it be done consistently? I don't think so, but I have been wrong before and will again. "
Me apologize? For what? I have done nor said anything for which to apologize. I presented information on a topic which was being debated. It just so happened that my findings were different than some others.
Hey!!!! I just noticed we lost our rankings!!!
I know it is not about the ranking..
This site is supposed to be fun too! Where did everones sence of humor go surely, that little thing couldnt be taken that seriously???
I don't like the thin mints... I prefer the peanut butter ones myself. I enjoy them with a warm glass of milk before I go night night.
Omega,
We have not heard where you got your info from
Please state number, number or website
If you can't don't reply with your foolishness.
At least Jeff stated his info may be wrong.
The post was to answer your question
Name the most recent properties YOU (meaning lori) bought for 40% or less,
I did.
Now proof I didn't with facts.
We are still waiting, or sit down and learn from the pros
[addsig]
Now you know there are 2 peanut butter kind. The chocolate covered ones, and those hard ones. I like the chocolate covered ones too, but you just don't get as many as you would in other boxes.
I've always said if those darn boy scouts would sell the girl scout cookies in the off season, they would make a killing.
Thomas,
You asked for an apology earlier, not me. Having your own position is great
and I have no problem with that! What I have the problem is arguing of key
point because it deflects it and in turn helps the guilty one, called .. ahh, we all know by now...
Speaking of thin-mints, im eating some right now. I keep them in the freezer. Yummy real cold
You know the Kebbler Elves sell a darn good replica of the thin mint. And I too keep them in the freezer, along with snickers.
NancyChadwick,
I can see there will be no certificates given out for hearts from this crew.
So Nancy, raise your right hand, do you solomley attest that you will speak with Lori and get to the bottom of this and post your findings with an unbiased opinion?
Nancy is a teacher of real estate and has an excellent reputation in her field, so instead of everyone trying to figure this remaining question out, maybe Nancy will take this assignment.
Until this is resolved I would suggest that we go on about posting and learning. I will wait for Nancy's reply or until someone takes this assignment then lock this post until the facts are ready to be presented.
John $Cash$ Locke
back to the basics...
Is this information defamation going to get settled or has this thread gotten out of control?
Tinman,
Instead of bragging about the end result maybe you could discuss the dynamics of some of your deals for educational puroses!
20 deals a month, you ought to be able to post some real-life scenerios that might bennifit all.
I just ate half the box.
man, I need to get back to work!
tinman1755,
You may have gotten the pass by John this time based on ahh, I am mother of 3 .. 3 what? Who knows if you do not lie about that too. Do you know shame? As far as I am concern your credibility is ZERO. Zip it up!
John
If you lock the post, how can the facts get posted??
I am a little lost. Will someone explain the reasoning behind manipulation of the assesment. It almost sounds like the beginnings of a large Ponzi scheme.
Omega,
I said early on in this long thread that I 'EXPECT' an apology from Jeff. And I still do.
If he can't do that then that reflects on him.
I asked nothing of anyone else.
WheelerDealer,
Easy when the results are found out I will unlock the thread for everyone to see or have a new post made.
John $Cash$ Locke
Okay
At least send us all a link in a PM so we can find it and follow.
This thread has been very intertaining and educational. If this was the only thread I ever read i would have signed up for the 5 year plan!![ Edited by WheelerDealer on Date 02/20/2004 ]
If all I need to do is cause some controversy to speak with Mr. Locke, I might as well start something sometime soon!
Successful people don’t spend time defending themselves. They realize that they are successful because they didn’t follow the pack and they also realize that it is not worth their time trying to bring the pack with them. They leave and enter a new world!
Good luck to all![ Edited by myfrogger on Date 02/20/2004 ]
Interesting thread.
Laurie is a broker?
She says she bought all her great deals from HUD?
All thru the same HUD rep?
Something stinks in PA.
Mykle
Quote:
On 2004-02-20 16:16, WheelerDealer wrote:
back to the basics...
Is this information defamation going to get settled or has this thread gotten out of control?
Tinman,
Instead of bragging about the end result maybe you could discuss the dynamics of some of your deals for educational puroses!
20 deals a month, you ought to be able to post some real-life scenerios that might bennifit all.
I just ate half the box.
man, I need to get back to work!
I will gladly do this. Where am I to post this? Or would an article be better? this way they can make sure everything I write is okay to say on this site.
You will be thinking what an easy, sure to win formula. I don't mind sharing, But never thin mints. I buy a years supply and keep them in the basement freezer
Just say the word and i'll start writing.
Lori
[addsig]
Start writing!!
i think an article would be a good place to start.
You seem to cover several aspects of doing deals.
maybe a step by step senerio with a part1 wholesale, part2 sub2, part 3 started out a sub2 but then had to pay cash because........ETC>
JohnLocke,
To get to the bottom of this, as you put it, requires much more than speaking with Lori. It requires reviewing records -- ones that she produces and ones that Jeff & others produce. I have no objection to Lori calling me. However, I'm not sure how my talking with her resolves the basic issue, that being is the property data she posted true and correct, and does she purchase properties at no more than 40% FMV.
So if I am to speak with her, then I must speak with everyone who has information, data, documents, facts. Not opinion, conjecture, hearsay, etc.
And I must be given copies of all the documents relating to all of the properties in question. That means not just the ones that Jeff has posted on. That means ALL of the properties that Lori has said she has purchased at 40% FMV or less. Thus, to determine the truthfulness of this statement, all documents, records, etc. relating to the "40% FMV or less" properties have to be produced by her and by the other people (Jeff et al.) and examined to show whether or not she purchased the properties at 40% FMV or less.
If I am to undertake this Herculean task, then I must have access, cooperation, and documents -- full and free. Those are my terms.
Nancy
You don't need theirs they have none. I would be happy showing you everything I have. Pm me your number
Mine are all from closings and have the seal from Michelle Rodriguz on them. I have alot of them right here with me now.
Lori
I pm you with my toll free number
[addsig]
NancyChadwick,
Those that are willing to co-operate with Nancy then speak up, she is willing to take this task on.
John $Cash$ Locke
I just thought of something,
Is it so farfetched that someone might buy a property at such a discount?
I read Ron Legrands book and most of his examples were 50% discounts or more! No complaints in the Ron L. forum here.
I got to thinking about it, after I sent a PM to Nancy, Does it really matter?
If I were tell you all that I buy and sell 100,200,300......1000 cars a month and several of those cars I gave only 1 dollar for, do I need to prove it? Just because you have not done so yourselves. Or is it the experience gained by the activity of buying and selling that has an educational value?
We all have caught a smaller fish than we really did when we went fishing. instead of having to prove you went on the fishing trip why not focus on what is takes to fish in the first place?
Do we need to focus on wether or not Tinman is a fraud or her screen name might imply she sells siding without a heart?
I think we ought to ask her how she did it so we can learn and if she cant teach us then it will be clear to all that she has nothing to offer. Nobody asked how they just called B.S.[ Edited by WheelerDealer on Date 02/20/2004 ]
JohnBergman,
With your Brooklyn accent, you must have come form the great city of New York..originally... spend some time and read other posts and you'll lose that paranoia. There is no game here. Only a member called Lori AKA TinMan, hustling board and advertising despite of the rules.
mykle,
Everything is fine in PA the way I see it, except with Lori the board hustler. And to get the bottom of this thing, I am proposing that NancyChadwick who is another resected member from PA render her opinion which if other would accept would be the final word on this post?
OK guys, would you accept NancyChadwick opinion to be final? John? I do!
How many boxes constitutes a years supply?
Omega1
When will you be able to give her the documents proffing I'm wrong. I have mine ready. It is 5:35 pm EST I must leave by 6:15pm EST.
Let me know where to fax them to
Lori
[addsig]
Quote:
On 2004-02-20 17:23, nebulousd wrote:
How many boxes constitutes a years supply?
Twentyfive boxes
They are my favorite
[addsig]
One more thing, she will have to resign or be put away or wahts the point? Lori, tin man, bord hustler, fraud whatever your prefered name is going to be and it is, do you agree to step down if you cannot prove that you:
1) wholesale 18-20 deals a month
2) buy them at 405 of the value
3) buy them from bank only and not from private parties
4) in the process you are not braking any laws related to taking disadvantage of other people
If you agree, then i would agree to ask Nancy to waist her time, otherwise you don't deserve a second of our time!
Dear Lori,
You can fax them to your shrink. When you send hello from me, tell him that when I think of you, I think of him as failure.
I am using American Title Company and if Jeff is unavailable to send his, I will send mine. Otherwise would be redundant and would tie up Nancy time with no effect on conclusion.
Furthermore, I want to emphasize that your few properties (after 18 years of investor's carrier) are not the point. Your lies and board hustling and other nonsense are. Your several properties in facts are just part of the many lies you posted on this board. I challenge you in this forum alone so many time and offered you the money to cover you up side down and you blatantly ignored ALL of them because you know you can show up the proof sop let me repeat once again: You are thee Fraud! [ Edited by omega1 on Date 02/20/2004 ]
Please let the facts do the talking. It appears that alot of egos are running rampant here. I hope Nanacychadwick can get results and let us all know where this stands. As for the rest I think they should get off their high horses and stop throwing stones in glass houses.
Omega,
Why do you have to be so harsh with the name calling. Be above all that.
Some of us are still curious about Lori’s deals. Here’s a dispassionate take. For the record, I don’t personally know Lori or anybody else who has contributed to this thread.
I have checked certain info about Lori’s deals at the Allegheny county website, both Assessor’s and Recorder’s office. County websites can be useful; even title companies make mistakes. (In my state many counties scan all deeds, so within a short time of recording you can read online the actual mortgage deed, NOD, etc. This data is as good as title companies.) For those who don’t use county records: the Assessor’s office primarily keeps tax records, it knows about sale prices as an “extra”. Assessor records are not always timely, Recorder’s office data is more current. For Allegheny County, PA, the Assessor database is free access, but Recorder data has to be paid for; I didn’t purchase any actual sale deeds although there is a trail of records of Deeds for Lori, her Trust and Trustee as long as your arm for all the right dates.
Still, it is clear Lori bought all the properties she says, usually via the “L A W Family Revocable Trust”, and Andrew Andros is the Trustee of this Trust. Both Trust & Trustee names appear on most purchases. (Andros is not her husband either). Shortly after purchase the property is usually transferred again, sometimes to Lori personally, as “Laurie Ann Waltz”. Because Trust matters can be hidden from public record you can’t always find out the real sale price. There is nothing sinister about this – use of Trusts for land purchase is a recognised technique for REIs, indeed it’s very trendy, and being able to hide prices is said to be one benefit.
Of the eight deals Lori listed:
1. 6542 Odessa is recorded as having been bought by HUD 4/28/03 for $4,915. There is no record yet of Lori or her Trust but that could just be Assessor’s office slowness. The TMV (Taxable Market Value) is given as $36,200. It’s not inconsistent Lori could have bought it off HUD for $11,300 or sold it for $60,000 after rehab.
2. 3068 Chartiers was bought in by Wells Fargo for $4,265 on 6/13/02 and bought by Lori’s Trust on 10/18/03 for $1 (ie no valid price data), where Lori claims she bought it for $10,600. TMV is $$66,300
3. No house # for Rogers St, so I didn’t check it.
4. 3103 Ashlyn. Lori’s Trust certainly bought it in 2003, price $1 again. TMV $31,900
5. 5626 Wellesley. Bought by Lori 10/1/02 for $27,500. Assessor’s website says Lori sold it for $27,500 where she says $82,500. As the TMV is $60,900 I suspect the Assessor’s office mistakenly copied the previous sale price over.
6. 100-102 Cherryhill. Can find record for 100 Cherryhill, but not 102 (probably a db screwup). Lori’s Trust owns it, sale price $1, TMV $48,600
7. 1517 Celtic. Lori’s Trust owns it. 8/16/02 she paid $23,050. Johncl confirmed that price in his full report on this property; it was previously a HUD property. It’s TMV is now given as $23,000 and the Assessor historical data shows the tax billed dropped by 50% from 02 to 03, as JeffreyAdam reports. If Lori intends to keep this property there is nothing odd about her requesting a tax reassessment. That doesn’t alter what she paid for it.
8. Lori gives no address.
There is nothing here which contradicts Lori’s accounts, even though quite a lot of critcal data is not available. The internal data are pretty consistent: Lori has bought a number of HUD or foreclosure houses where the bank/HUD buy-in had been around $4,000. Consider that Lori is operating in Pittsburgh, an industrial city with a history of economic problems. The file images of some properties suggest they are in low-cost or even “war zone” neighborhoods, where many of us don’t operate. There is clearly lots of low-price housing stock (her Trust’s Trustee operates out of a property valued at $9,000) and it is likely distress sale prices are low. If so, it is also understandable Lori comes by deals quickly by getting word around in those neighborhoods. She only claims to have bought eight houses herself in that period, but to have flipped or reassigned many more; without going into that whole thing it may be some deals are what others call birddogging and can be done pretty quickly.
Lori seems to be buying in down neighborhoods and likely helping improve those neighborhoods in the process. For all I know Lori has created her REI career from scratch in these neighborhoods. In which case, more power to her! Just because an outside privy costs us at least $50,000 on the upscale west coast <g> doesn’t mean we should disbelieve Lori’s account. She’s working in a totally different environment and culture. I think we should cut the lady some slack.
http://www.county.allegheny.pa.us/index.asp
is clearly the legitimate Allegheny county website
http://www2.county.allegheny.pa.us/RealEstate/
is the Assessor's section of the website
http://www.county.allegheny.pa.us/deeds/index.asp
is the Recorder's section of the website
Uh, the system will probably remove those URLs, in the public interest maybe someone higher up the food chain can repost ‘em!
WheelerDealer
I do it to prove the point that she is cold harted, recklessly ignorant and blatantly disrespectful
to the entire board. Do I need to say it. Yes for the site's future good because if she is able to slip this time, we'll all end up hearing from her in the future. When you have the mall in the closet, don't let it slip away or will eat you wife's Kashmir dress, the short one you like it.
Hello,
Newby here, this may not be the best place to start but here I go sticking my nose in.....
Dang, this has been real, & it has been fun, but not real fun.
I like the thin mints also, but 20 boxes wouldn't last 2 weeks around here.
I didn't really get the aggressive nature of this thread when I started reading, but I get it now & I appreciate the search for truth. Thanks to all for looking for the truth.
I don't know about any one else, but I have 3 kids & I would NEVER swear on their lives, ever.
That is worse than saying "trust me"!
Anyone watch the last "Survivor" with Johnny Fairplay swearing on his Grandma?
To quote Forest Gump,"thats all I've got to say about that"
Ricky Lee
Newberry Florida
Wow! What a fight. I don't have a dog in this hunt. However, I would like Lori to explain what she means by 20 deals a month.
I don't do houses, only raw land. I can't imagine doing 20 deals in a year let alone in one month.
Please enlighten.
Omega1
I will gladly never post again if all of the properties were not bought below 40% FMV. and if they were not bought from a bank or from HUD
I do own other properties and other businesses. You see real estate is an investment for me The houses I keep are for retirement purposes. Which means to supplement my social security and my other financial investments. I do not make a killing on my rentals nor could I survive. They are a supplemental income source. The wholesaling I do for myself and my family is limited to 3-4 deals a year. The wholesaling I do for other investors is to generate business in my mortgage company. You see I do not get paid by the Buyer or the Seller, that would be a conflict of interest.
I do that only to supplement my primary income.
So if anything I have stated is untrue and you have the proof. I will not post another line and I will go away forever from this site.
I think if you are that sure of yourself you will do the same.
Lori
[addsig]
Ooooh my!
You have challenged Omega to ban himself forever if you are correct?
Omega, I have to ask. Are you going to accept this dual?
TCI Members,
I just spoke with Nancy Chadwick she will look into this and will make a report of her findings.
If you have pertinent information please contact her.
This post will now be locked until the matter is resolved.
John $Cash$ Locke
On 2/19/04, tinman1755 ("Tinman"
posted a topic entitled "Buying Properties at 40% FMV or Less" ("40% Topic"
.http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&mode=viewtopic&topic=22411&forum=18&start=0 The purpose, she said, was to provide some examples of properties that she purchased at 40% or less in response to people who either had requested examples or had claimed she was a liar and a "board hustler." She provided the address, location, purchase price and other information for 6 properties. Tinman's post set off what can only be described as 24 hours of vigorous (and at times virulent) debate, discussion and comments from TCI members. Two main issues evolved from these postings:
is susceptible of many definitions depending on who is defining it and for what reason it is being defined. FMV is defined in the real estate investing terms of the My Tools section of this site as: "[t]he price at which property is transferred between a willing buy and a willing seller - both with good information and under no compulsion to buy or sell"; "[t]he price at which property would change hands between a buyer an a seller, neither having to buy or sell, and both having reasonable knowledge of all necessary facts." "Market value" is defined in this section of the site as "[t]he price at which a property could be sold on the open market, with buyer and seller free from abnormal pressures", and "assessed valuation" is the '[v]]alue assigned to a piece of property by the local governmental unit for real estate tax purposes. This is usually less than the market value of the property. The relationship between assessed and market value varies widely depending on location and jurisdiction."
generates FMV with the assistance of a computer assessment mass appraisal system and establishes assessments for all properties in the County every 3 years. FMV is primarily based on sales of properties having comparable characteristics and locations. The current assessed values (2002) will remain in effect through 2005, and no revaluation will be done in the interim unless there's a physical change to the property. (http://www.county.allegheny.pa.us/opa/assess.asp)
and assessed value ("AV"
as follows: SP $55,000 & AV $55,600; SP $55,000 & AV $57,400; SP $72,500 & AV $57,500; SP $62,900 & AV $56,100; SP $64,000 & AV $56,500.
of real estate is, at best, an inexact science and it is subjective. There are several instances where there does not appear to be any relationship between the AV and the SP of the comparable properties used by the OPA. For example:
1. does Tinman in fact "wholesale" 15-20 properties a month; and
2. does Tinman in fact purchase properties at 40% FMV or less.
On 2/20/04, I was asked by John Locke if I would be willing to "get to the bottom of this and post [my] findings with an unbiased opinion", and I agreed to do so on the condition that I have full and free access, cooperation and documents (40% Topic, pp. 7,8) Pursuant to my request, Tinman mailed me copies of documents. I have not reviewed deeds. I have reviewed documents Tinman sent me, other documents, and have conducted such investigation and due diligence as I felt was appropriate and necessary. The following are my findings as to each of the main issues.
1. Wholesaling 15-20 Properties per Month
Confusion often results when real estate-related terms are misused, misunderstood or misinterpreted. It is often the case with TCI posts that posters use/misuse terms and do not explain what their understanding of the term was and therefore how they were using it. This engenders misunderstanding. People think they understand what the posters are saying but fail to ask the poster to explain what they meant and/or the posters themselves think they are communicating "X" when in fact, others are interpreting it as "Y". Real estate terminology, customs, practices and usage vary widely among the 50 states.
"Wholesaling" is just one of many terms that is susceptible of misuse and loose use. It is defined in the FAQ section of this site as
"...the intent to flip or do a quick resale of the property to make a profit.".... "1. You can purchase the house outright and sell the house outright. 2. Put the property when you purchase it into a Land Trust, then reassign the beneficiaries. 3. MOST SIMPLE - Assign your contract to your buyer. All you collect is the assignment fee."
Posters have equated "wholesaling" with taking title to the property, or not taking title to the property, or assigning the property, or flipping the property to someone else who may or may not close with the owner and who may or may not be the end user for the property. (http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/ViewTopic20450-19-18.html) Posters have discussed how to wholesale property without even actually having the seller agree in writing to an assignment and recommended that the seller not be told the property was being wholesaled. (http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=22741&forum=19)
What does "wholesaling" mean to Tinman? To eliminate any confusion, I asked Tinman to describe what she did on those 15-20 properties per month that she had categorized as "wholesaling" and here's what she wrote in her response PM to me on 2/24/04:
"I advertise for homeowners in the paper. Today 02/24/2004 I received SIXTEEN (16) applications from people who want to buy a house in Pgh to live in. Right now I have a list of 43 houses that are being sold by investors (none are mine at this time). If the buyer qualifies for a loan I send them to the addresses to look at the properties in the area or areas they are interested in living in. If they like the property they call me back. But in the mean time I already know what LTV [does she mean "offer price"?] the seller wants on the property. So I only send people to the house that the seller will agree to sell to."
"If they do like the house I then send them a list of items I need to close the deal. I deal directly with the following people on every deal: Bank, title attorney, abstractor, REA (if applicable, sometimes two), seller, buyer, appraisal, code inspector, home inspector. I also draw up all contracts. The one I just closed last week the buyer and seller never talked to one another until the closing."
"Wholesaling at my REI meeting means knowing what the bottom line price the seller will accept and getting someone to purchase it at a higher price to make money in the middle. I am not allowed to charge that middle money because then I would not be able to do the loan. .... I get paid on the loan only. ....I make 5-7% on every loan plus a processing fee of $400.00. Or whatever is allowed before going into section 32. That is how I wholesale 15-20 deals a month. I have done three this week so far. What I consider done is: all paper work, Appraisal Money, Hand Money (I hold that also), And signed contract."
"Wholesaling", to Tinman, includes taking title to properties and then reselling them to other people, or not taking title to the property, or not acquiring any equitable ownership interest in the property. (http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=20014&forum=19; http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/ViewTopic20450-19-18.html)
Prior to 2/19/04, Tinman posted on TCI descriptions of what she categorizes as "wholesaling" and her 2/24/04 PM to me is consistent with those prior posts. See, for example, http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/View/topic20450-19-18.html; http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=22146&forum=18; http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=21676&forum=19; http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=20703&forum=19
People may disagree that Tinman's activities in matching buyer with seller, doing the loan but not acquiring any ownership interest in the property constituted "wholesaling." However, that is not the issue. The issue is did Tinman believe that what she was doing was wholesaling in such "non-ownership interest" situations? Obviously, the answer is "yes." Did Tinman intend to deceive anyone by categorizing these situations as "wholesaling"? I do not see any "proof" that she intended to deceive. As noted above, elsewhere on the TCI site and prior to the 40% Topic, Tinman described in posts what she does to "wholesale" properties and she stated that these were scenarios that involved acquiring an ownership interest and NOT acquiring an ownership interest. On 1/26/04 she posted:
"I do my own ads to sell and I qualify the buyers myself. I can't do the mortgage because it is a conflict of interest. My home improvement company does all the work. So I got everything on a tight rein." (http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=22146&forum=18)
On 2/10 she posted in another topic:
"At my real estate group a birddog is someone who goes around looking for deals and assigns them to someone else. A wholesaler is someone who buys many properties at one time or mortgages or sell them off individually. A flipper is someone who buys, rehabs, and sells the house to someone else for the appraised value. .... There will be many answers depending on what part of the country you are in. I have seen these terms intertwined to mean the same thing on this site, so I have to read between the lines to figure out what is meant by each post." (http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=21676&forum=19).
Since Tinman cannot release documentation about transactions where she did the loan but did not have an ownership interest in the property, it is impossible for me to verify the number of transactions of this type.
2. Purchase at 40% FMV
"Fair market value" ("FMV"
Real estate appraisers do not use FMV; they use "market value" which is defined as:
"the most probable price which a property should bring in a competitive and open market under all conditions requisite to a fair sale, the buyer and seller each acting prudently and knowledgeably, and assuming the price is not affected by undue stimulus. Implicit in this definition is the consummation of a sale as of a specified date and the passing of title from seller to buyer under conditions whereby:
1. buyer and seller are typically motivated;
2. both parties are well informed...and acting in what they consider their best interests;
3. a reasonable time is allowed for exposure in the open market;
4. payment is made in terms of cash in United States dollars or in terms of financial arrangements comparable thereto; and
5. the price represents the normal consideration for the property sold unaffected by special or creative financing or sales concessions granted by anyone associated with the sale."
(Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice 2003 Edition, p. 224)
The definition of FMV used by the IRS for charitable donations of real and personal property is consistent with the USPAP definition of market value, and appraisals are required for real estate being contributed. (See IRS Publication 561, rev 2/00)
The 6 properties listed by Tinman in the 40% Topic are located in Allegheny County, PA. The Allegheny County Office of Property Assessments ("OPA"
The 6 properties listed by Tinman are as follows:
1. 3103 Ashlyn
Purchased cash 1/03 for $26,900 refi'd in 5/03 for $62,400, County assessed value of $61,600 (Tinman indicated she had gotten an assessment reduction apparently not reflected on the OPA website); the 5 comparable properties listed by the OPA for this property show sale price ("SP"
2. 3068 Chartiers
Purchased cash 7/03 for $27,900, County assessed value of $66,300. The 5 comparable properties listed by the OPA show SP and AV as follows: SP $53,000 & AV $54,200; SP $31,500 & AV $38,700; SP $26,800 & AV $29,100; SP $73,000 & AV $62,600; SP $26,000 & AV $60,400.
3. 100 Cherryhill
Purchased cash 12/01 for $11,700, refi'd 4/02 for $84,000, County assessed value of $48,600. The 5 comparable properties listed by the OPA show SP and AV as follows: SP $85,000 & AV $93,900; SP $67,500 & AV $69,700; SP $105,000 & AV $103,600; SP $65,000 & AV $72,400; SP $25,000 & AV $77,900.
4. 1517 Celtic
Purchased 8/02 for $23,050, refi'd for $41,600, County assessed value of $45,700 (Tinman indicated she had gotten an assessment reduction apparently not reflected on the OPA website). The 4 comparable properties listed by the OPA show SP and AV as follows: SP $50,000 & AV $51,900; SP $1 & AV $44,100; SP $1 & AV $54,200; SP $61,000 & AV $55,900.
5. 5626 Wellesley
Purchased 10/02 for $27,500, County assessed value of $60,900. The 5 comparable properties listed by the OPA show SP and AV as follows: SP $53,000 & AV $57,400; SP $51,000 & AV $57,300; SP $94,000 & AV $95,600; SP $56,000 & AV $70,400; SP $16,000 & AV $16,000.
6. 6542 Odessa
Purchased 1/04 for $11,305 with loan of $50,000, County assessed value of $36,200. The 5 comparable properties listed by the OPA show SP and AV as follows: SP $49,000 & AV $49,300; SP $42,000 & AV $38,000; SP $32,000 & AV $30,600; SP $31,800 & AV $33,000; SP $70,000 & AV $32,700.
I asked Tinman what she meant when she posted that she buys properties at 40% FMV or less - in other words, FMV at what point in time (at time of purchase, after rehab, etc.), and her response PM to me on 2/24/04 was this:
"That depends on what criteria determines the FMV. I see what houses [are] listed, I check out the comps, what the previous owner paid for the house, then I have Andy go in the house and check out the damage,...I tell him what the county is saying the FMV price is. I do know that Odessa Place's FMV is around $36K and I purchased that for $11,305 in jan. ....So yes they are under 40% or around there when I purchase them. But [[Odessa] will be appraised at $60K.... Cherryhill I paid $11,500 for and FMV was $48K (I know this for a fact) but it was appraised for $105K. I never fought the assessment for the taxes."
Prior to the 40% Topic, Tinman posted information on how she determines FMV:
"I go to a real estate agent's office and ask them what housing have been selling [for] in that neighborhood, I tell them I am considering buying the property, fixing it up, and selling it. They see two deals and get me all info I need. But to find out costs and repairs, I get a boro building inspector and appraiser for the real figures (but they cost)." (posted 1/22/04 at http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=20306&forum=18)
"I found that http://www.foreclosures.com had the best deals. Every property I found on that website has been under 50% FMV, when I was finished rehabbing them. ...." (posted 1/21/04 at http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=20008&forum=18)
On Ashlyn, Wells Fargo issued her a loan for $62,400. Assuming 80% LTV, that means Wells Fargo had an appraised value of around $78,000 for the property. On Cherryhill, Flagstar issued her a loan for $84,000 which if it was 80% LTV, translates into an appraised value of around $105,000. On Celtic, Flagstar issued her a loan of $41,600 (if 80% LTV, an appraised value of $52,000). Odessa was purchased with a $50,000 loan from Nationwide Development which means Nationwide's appraised value was around $62,500.
Estimating the value (however you define "value"
SP for Comparable #3 for Ashlyn far exceeds the AV ($72,500 v. $57,500)
AV for Comparable #5 for Chartiers far exceeds the SP ($26,000 v. $60,400)
SP for Comparable #5 for Odessa far exceeds the AV ($70,000 v. $32,700)
Ask 5 different people to give you a "value" for the same property and you will likely get 5 different opinions. You may even get 5 different opinions of the definition of "value". Accordingly, it is impossible for me to define the FMV, "market value", "appraised value" or any other species of "value" for the 6 properties. It appears, however, that Tinman's benchmark for measuring the 40% was a combination of County AV, comparable sales data received from real estate agents, and appraised values.
[ Edited by NancyChadwick on Date 02/28/2004 ]
[ Edited by NancyChadwick on Date 02/28/2004 ][ Edited by NancyChadwick on Date 02/28/2004 ]
Nancy,
You say it is impossible for you to determine value? The fact that the banks loaned the amounts they did, doesnt that say something as to value versus purchase prices paid by tinman?
Also, did she SELL any of these propertys or just get big mortgages on them?
[ Edited by WheelerDealer on Date 02/28/2004 ]
I have first seen this post today. I have a few thoughts on it. First of all, I have found it interesting that many posters have assumed that a title company would have more accurate information than the county Register of deeds office or local assessors office would. A title company does their searches by going to the local county register of deeds office. If I want to research a property I will go to the county register of deeds office because I know that that is the same way that a local title company does it's research. I also know that at times even county registration of docs are backlogged. If you are going to ask for a title search on a property I hope that it is through a local title search office and not through a issuing company in a different state who does not have access to the more recently filed documents. My second thought more importantly is this..... If I ever get really successful at what I do I will remember not to tell anyone here at TCI! I will certainly remember to keep it to myself. It seems that the posts that go over the best here are those from the newbies because no one feels inadequate or threatened by them. I will probably never post an article here at TCI because I've seen the way the article posters often get torn apart as though a piece of meat. I have lost a lot of respect for some members through reading this post and others. The thought process I seem to be seeing here is "It's okay if you do well....... just don't ever do better!" My two cents worth. Tell me if I'm wrong.
Sandbahr,
My experience shows that the farther one moves away from "the horse's mouth" (meaning the county courthouse & its database), the greater the likelihood that information will not be accurate or up-to-date. I agree with you.
As for your other point, I sincerely hope that there comes the day (and sooner rather than later) when you will not feel reluctant to share some of your investing/real estate experiences at TCI as an article, comment or post.
Nancy,
Thank you for taking on this task.
I know that on your own time and your own expense you followed through and did a thorough job explaining.
It was a tough job but someone had to do it, better you than me.
John $Cash$ Locke[ Edited by JohnLocke on Date 02/28/2004 ]
JohnLocke,
Thanks. If I ever meet St. Peter, I'll put in a good word for you. And you better believe that it won't be FMV.
Nancy
Great Job Nancy!
I am glad we got to the bottom of this!
I think the whole problem here was how people defined "wholesaling" and "FMV".
I think the TCI should be a learning environment for everyone even newbies.
It is too bad the person who posted above feels the way he does. Hopefully we can change that.
Best Riches,
Jeff Adam
_________________
"The only place success comes before work
is in the dictionary."[ Edited by JeffreyAdam on Date 02/28/2004 ]
Nancy,
St. Peter was a Subject To investor so we have a lock on getting in.
Please don't tell him you are a Realtor, tell him you were in jail for 20 years and you will stand a better chance at those pearly gates.
John $Cash$ Locke
John,
Then there's one sure fire way to get his attention. I'll tell him there's a great piece of land in FL he should buy (subject to, of course). And I've got the comps to prove it's a terrific deal.
Nancy
Jeff,
I can certainly understand the reasons for Sandbahr's post.
As you know, I do not agree that misunderstanding was the "whole problem" here.
Nancy:
You are probably right. But I think the best thing we can all do is get past this.
It isn't very productive anymore.
Thanks again for your hard work.
Best Riches,
Jeffrey Adam
[addsig]
To all TCI members.
Jeff, good call.
THE END, thats all folks.
John $Cash$ Locke